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Just a personal opinion

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Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:37 pm

Well, I debated coming here under a different name, but I didn't really see any point. Some of you may recognize me as Stryyder from the Live Action Anime forum. I know I saw DTX there some months ago and Tlaloc as well(though he seems to harbor a grudge against us).

I can honestly say I doubt I'd sign your petition, but I'm not going to come on here and try and cut you guys down. My personal philosophy is that I disagree with what you say but it is your right to express it.

I'll start with my view on the movie. I have been watching DBZ since it first started airing in the US, under Pioneer. I own the whole series on DVD/VHS. I own the entire manga series, and it pretty much acted as a gateway series for me getting into anime. I have watched dozens of series now, and enjoy much of the eastern culture. I am a 50/50 skeptic when it comes to hollywood movies. There are the few good ones but for the majority nowadays they tend to be nothing but repeated cliche stories or sequels to movies that have been beaten to death already. So how does that stack up for me on the DB movie? Well, I can't say I really hold a lot of hope for it currently. I was appalled when I first heard the amount of teen drama WB stars that were being cast. I have been a long detractor of the WB dreck that has been aired such as Smallville. However, I am still intrigued at the prospect of the movie. I won't hold any delusions that the movie is going to be a lot like the Manga/anime and in it's own right, it is impossible. They can't make this a completely true redition of the original story, mainly because that would alienate the general audience who doesn't totally get into the series like the generic fanboys/fangirls. They make a movie that will appeal to the audience they are selling to. But still, I am willing to bend a little, to see what adaptations this movie will bring. I find that making judgements now, before even a trailer has been released, is just jumping the gun. You can't honestly say that something is bad based on preliminary information. I understand that you state you think the adaptation is bad and I can't argue with that. But to say there is no hope for this movie to be entertaining is pure opinion. I will write more soon, but I just wanted to get this out there. I just want to see what you guys REALLY think, what your true reasons for disliking this movie are, aside from the over-reactive "THIS MOVIE SUCKS!!! DIE HOLLYWOOD!!" statements I see.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:27 pm

Thank you on your opinion...

Now thats all your opinion, but mine opinion still stays and will always stay - true lovers who purely and truly love this anime are the ones who protest against this movie(or at least does not support it), not the ones who are "giving the hope" or being excited about it...

I find that making judgements now, before even a trailer has been released, is just jumping the gun. You can't honestly say that something is bad based on preliminary information.
for this ULTRA frequently posted sentence I have finally found the best explanation in the world:


I mean some things are just too obvious?! its a LIVE ACTION its not 3D animated, its L-I-V-E A-C-T-I-O-N +we all saw the cast list and how that same castlist looks...you don't know whether to scream, cry or laugh...its 100% pure pain just to watch it...I am really seriously when I say I pause my music in winamp every time I watch the pics of this movie, I swear I am serious!
For someone who would be MEGA pissed off if the original creators would make new DBZ series where they changed the drawing style just a little bit, this pretty much drives me insane to the limit!

And besides its not about MOVIE being good by itself! This is not a movie, this is an adaptation.
actually it SHOULD be an adaptation...

I will repeat - I SIMPLY CAN'T imagine anyone who call himself a "DB lover" and who's supporting this movie...
Believe it or not but I still sometimes think that all this is one big conspiracy against me or one big nightmare...

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:11 pm

Well, I can understand your opinion but again I see flaws in the reasoning.

I don't agree about "True dbz lovers" having to be against this movie. I do love dbz. I've enjoyed it for over a decade now. Whether or not this movie is good or not will not diminish my enjoying the source material. I didn't really like some of the things they did with the X-men movies, especially all the liberties they took, but I still love the source, same with Transformers. But my love for the source material is not going to bias me on a movie I have never seen.

As to your image, that is a good point, but also, I don't agree. Yes you can judge an idea, but you can't infer that because you don't like the idea that the end product will be just as bad as you picture it to be.

You also said this movie is and should be an "adaptation". The core meaning of the word is to adapt, to change to fit the current surroundings. That is what they are doing. What you are looking for is "replication". If you want a TRUE replication of the Dragonball story you will not find it in a U.S. movie. For one, while many people know Dragonball, a majority doesn't. For many people, they would not understand it. Granted Hollywood makes a lot of money, but to make a movie that will not even see a return on just cost of making the movie is a ludicrous idea in any sense. The only way you would have ANY country do a live action replication of dragonball it would be Japan.
As an adaptation, the company has to go for the target audience. They have to alter story points, character design, dialect to match those of americans, as well as the audience they are selling to, which is 12-18, really. Therefor they have to make Goku a character that people can relate to.

I doubt you will care about any of this, but really, it is the way the world works. A business company is not going to appease a 5% portion of their audience because that portion is boycotting, they will just make their dollars on the 95% that are tollerant, curious, or interested.

And again, I know you don't care whether or not your petition goes through or not, but here's the odds:

1) Hollywood gives in, shelves the current movie and any plans for sequels they have. Result: They now are out millions of dollars and have a bunch of fans that were waiting for the movie mad at them.

2) Hollywood releases the first, but then agrees not to release sequels. Result: They make money on the first, then no more and have the fans who want more mad at them.

3) Hollywood releases the first movie, then makes sequels. Result: they make a lot of money on the movies and have the fans that don't want the movie mad at them.

Regardless of their decision, the result still has people mad at them. They don't care who it is. Movie making is a business. The point of business is to make money. That is the basis of the economy of the world. So the true decision for them:

1) lose millions.
2) make money on one movie
3) make money on several movies

Looks like a pretty simple decision to me.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:09 am

Stryyder wrote:Well, I can understand your opinion but again I see flaws in the reasoning.

I don't agree about "True dbz lovers" having to be against this movie. I do love dbz. I've enjoyed it for over a decade now. Whether or not this movie is good or not will not diminish my enjoying the source material. I didn't really like some of the things they did with the X-men movies, especially all the liberties they took, but I still love the source, same with Transformers. But my love for the source material is not going to bias me on a movie I have never seen.
I never said it will affect DB/Z, of course it will not! I will ALWAYS ultimately love DB/Z! but right because of THAT I have desire to protect it and to do not let they make mockery out of it, like they do right now...

Stryyder wrote:As to your image, that is a good point, but also, I don't agree. Yes you can judge an idea, but you can't infer that because you don't like the idea that the end product will be just as bad as you picture it to be.
Examples and comparations are MOTHER of explaining... therefore:
If you don't like to eat sand, you won't like it no matter what shape the sand-cookies have...its not about loving or hating the movie buy itself alone, its - not wanting DB to be anything alse than it was...

Stryyder wrote:You also said this movie is and should be an "adaptation". The core meaning of the word is to adapt, to change to fit the current surroundings. That is what they are doing. What you are looking for is "replication". If you want a TRUE replication of the Dragonball story you will not find it in a U.S. movie. For one, while many people know Dragonball, a majority doesn't. For many people, they would not understand it. Granted Hollywood makes a lot of money, but to make a movie that will not even see a return on just cost of making the movie is a ludicrous idea in any sense. The only way you would have ANY country do a live action replication of dragonball it would be Japan.
As an adaptation, the company has to go for the target audience. They have to alter story points, character design, dialect to match those of americans, as well as the audience they are selling to, which is 12-18, really. Therefor they have to make Goku a character that people can relate to.
I doubt you will care about any of this, but really, it is the way the world works. A business company is not going to appease a 5% portion of their audience because that portion is boycotting, they will just make their dollars on the 95% that are tollerant, curious, or interested.
yeeeeess??? Aaaaand??? you take that as something OK??? well I'm sorry but if you accept that I won't accept it even if my life is in danger... right because of what you said now Hollywood adaptations should NEVER EXIST. You perfectly expressed every bad thing about Hollywood...


Stryyder wrote:And again, I know you don't care whether or not your petition goes through or not, but here's the odds:

1) Hollywood gives in, shelves the current movie and any plans for sequels they have. Result: They now are out millions of dollars and have a bunch of fans that were waiting for the movie mad at them.

2) Hollywood releases the first, but then agrees not to release sequels. Result: They make money on the first, then no more and have the fans who want more mad at them.

3) Hollywood releases the first movie, then makes sequels. Result: they make a lot of money on the movies and have the fans that don't want the movie mad at them.

Regardless of their decision, the result still has people mad at them. They don't care who it is. Movie making is a business. The point of business is to make money. That is the basis of the economy of the world. So the true decision for them:

1) lose millions.
2) make money on one movie
3) make money on several movies

Looks like a pretty simple decision to me.
And again:
yeeeeess??? Aaaaand??? you take that as something OK??? well I'm sorry but if you accept that I won't accept it even if my life is in danger... right because of what you said now Hollywood adaptations should NEVER EXIST. You perfectly expressed every bad thing about Hollywood...

Its really weird to call yourself a DB fan and to let the world manipulate with you and shape you in the way it wants.... Isn't that the opposite of what DB/Z preaches...?
Its really disappointing to say all that and to have NOTHING against it...to be the worst it seems like you are perfectly fine with it and only interested in money and nothing else...

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:01 pm

Well, if you concede that it won't affect DB/Z then why do you feel you have to protect it? My biggest question is what effect will this movie have that you despise it so much? Will it injure someone? no Will it cause a riot? no. Will people enjoy it? yes. There is no doubt that at least some people will enjoy the movie. It just seems to me that the whole reason you want this movie cancelled is because YOU don't like the idea of them making a Dragonball movie unless every single little detail is followed to the letter. And while that is your personal opinion, and you have every right to make that your reason, I don't see how people are supposed to sign a petition, or that Hollywood is supposed to take a petition seriously, because it is based on your personal tastes and opinons. If it was something specifically harmful, specifically beneficial, or a huge public opinion, I can see the point of a petition.

My statements about money hold true though. This country has an integral economy. The simple structure is the public demands something, a company fills that demand. People make money at a company to spend at another company. Hollywood is no different. You spend millions of dollars on a movie you need to make back millions of dollars to offset that debt. To make that money you have to have a product that will sell.

Here's a metaphor. There are 4 coffee shops in a plaza and you own one. the other 3 shops make gourmet delicious coffee. Are you going to make standard basic blend and expect customers to buy your coffee? Of course not, everyone will know your coffee has no flavor, is bland and they will see 3 shops right next to you selling better coffee so they will go to one of them. Are you going to go over and say "Coffee was never meant to have flavor. When they first started making coffee it was all the same. You should make it like that!" And expect them to listen?

You say I state everything bad about hollywood, hate to say it, that would make my statements everything bad about the world. Tmobile makes phones that play music, text, play video and for what? Money. AE, Ecko, and Ralph Lauren make clothes that cost 150% more than they cost to make and for what? Money. Nintendo, Xbox and Playstation? Money. Do you own a cell phone? An MP3 player? A video game system? If you do then you got it from the same economical formula that Hollywood works on, make a product, hype it, sell it.

Its really weird to call yourself a DB fan and to let the world manipulate with you and shape you in the way it wants.... Isn't that the opposite of what DB/Z preaches...?
How does the world manipulate me? Because I understand how the world works? If I want to speak out against something I'll pick a battle I can make a difference in. One that matters. I'm not going to rant against a movie just because it alters something that I'm a fan of. I'll go out and paint homes and do yardwork for the disenfranchised. I'll sign a petition to try and keep handguns out of schools, or harsher murder and rape laws. I'm not going to spend my time going off against a movie that, whether it is released or not, is going to have no bearing on me, the world or the future. DB/Z doesn't preach non-conformity. DB/Z is a hero story. It's about doing what is right, what needs to be done to help people, keep them safe. And stopping a single movie is none of that.

I can honestly say, no I have nothing against this movie. Of course Hollywood is interested in money. It is a business. Does the fact that they aren't keeping strictly to the manga mean they don't care about it? No. They still want to make a movie that people will enjoy. But one company can't bow to the demands of every person that comes up to them. They can't make a movie that every single person on the planet will enjoy. They will make a movie that the majority will enjoy.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by ningen on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:09 pm

His stupidity is just...AHHHH, I calmed down after that "just a personal opinion", but what do we have here- a reply. Huh, it will be a waste of time, but...meh, let's give it a try:
He said:"I find that making judgements now, before even a trailer has been released, is just jumping the gun."
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!ARE YOU THAT..AHHHH?!A TRAILER?!AND WHAT- WE'RE IN TOTAL DARK NOW?!
Imagine this: There is a movie named:"Stupidity is strong in that one" and you know nothing else about the movie. And there isn't any other information about it except that the trailer will be soon released. You see, my friend, when that's the case than you can freely use the sentence I quoted.
So, you can disagree with Vegeta about "not wanting DB to be anything else than it was"(every DB fan would think the same, but unfortunately there are ppl like you too)and you can say "I see flaws in the reasoning" but after all the information...I mean have you even read the petition?! It's all explained there, so even a child could understand. And to still like it and be mad if the cursed movie would be canceled?!*hitting my head against the wall* Sry but that is just blindness in it's prime!
Now about your reply, well actually you said it all too well- you showed how f$cked up world this is.
"Movie making is a business." Well ok, make your stinkin' movies but use your own ideas(I know that it's hard for you). For me DB LAM has nothing in common with the DB except for the name, which something as lame as that movie should never be alowed to use in the first place. It should be called:"A piece of $hit on which we try to earn some money(but we will FAIL to do so) by trying to connect it with something so great that we can't even comprehend it(but who cares, we're hollywood bastards, and we're only interested in money)and by mocking that what we actually don't even understand we will angry millions of people(100% of the fans/ppl who know what DB is)but who cares when some retards will actually pay us to see that piece of $hit, hopefully there are plenty of them,hihi."


"I just want to see what you guys REALLY think, what your true reasons for disliking this movie are, aside from the over-reactive "THIS MOVIE SUCKS!!! DIE HOLLYWOOD!!" statements I see."
If you were only able to see that, than we have nothing to discuss...Have a nice day.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:35 pm

@Stryyder
Well, if you concede that it won't affect DB/Z then why do you feel you have to protect it?
It will NEVER REALLY affect it for what DB is IN MY EYES and in eyes of every true DB fan, but it will affect its name and pride...
Like someone constantly insulting you HARDLY and you say "naaah, he won't affect me..." YES! he won't affect you physically but not all in this world is physical...the same about DB... it wont really do anything to DB/Z itself, and I'll ALWAYS love DB/Z but I want to defend its name and pride...
simple enough...

My biggest question is what effect will this movie have that you despise it so much?
Well the biggest effect is one that this movie will turn DB into pop culture stereotype and such...
Pop culture is one of my most hated things and DB/Z is clearly the best thing ever and one of very few lights in my F*CKIN life...and should I let that last light turn off without fighting?! - NOOO DAMN WAY! The collision of those two is simply ripping off my brain skin...
you don't have a freakin idea how persistent I am...I'd rather die then accept this movie...

Rest of your post again disappoint me...Why do you repeat money stuff again? I UNDERSTAND but the question is, DO YOU THINK THATS OK?! I don't have anything against someone who live with it, but I don't understand people who take that as something righteous and ok...THATS NOT OK! THATS SAD!

How does the world manipulate me?
This way:
My statements about money hold true though. This country has an integral economy. The simple structure is the public demands something, a company fills that demand. People make money at a company to spend at another company. Hollywood is no different. You spend millions of dollars on a movie you need to make back millions of dollars to offset that debt. To make that money you have to................
And you take that as something ok... If you'd only say "thats bad" then I would accept you as someone who is not manipulated...but you are not even able to say that??

BTW your Coffee example is not good IMO, because tastes are different even for coffee as much as for everything else...PLUS!!! Coffee is a BUSINESS and DB/Z IS AN ART!

It is a business
YES! a key sentence! I already said...
Hollywood = Business
DB/Z = ART
THATS the major difference and THATS why DB should never be touched by the dirty hands of hollywood...
You see not every company in the world works for money, believe it or not there are still some people who respect the moral...and those people are called ARTISTS...and the ones that you are mentioning are called BUSINESSMEN...

Now don't tell me "face it, even DB/Z was for money"...please...of course! thats all job! but its not all an exploitation and pure business for sure!
PLEASE! we all know very well the HUGE difference between art and business...and we all know that mr.Toriyama and the rest of the crew put their time, mind and soul onto it with THEIR OWN STYLE AND IDEA!
Lets describe it this way:
Art : Business = Feelings together with everything they bring : sole material interest WITHOUT feelings and the rest

I mean ok, I respect you and your opinion but in my personal opinion you are not DB fan...thats it...
I just want you to know that I won't change my mind no matter what...I can only spend my time explaining you something that many already asked and never read the reply obviously...

AND ALMOST FORGOT, MOST IMPORTANT!
DB/Z is a hero story.
NO! DB/Z is simply DB/Z story
It's about doing what is right
Exactly!
what needs to be done to help people, keep them safe.
Exactly!
And stopping a single movie is none of that.
NO!
I believe thats the only right thing to do in this chaotic exploitation of the DB, many other people who support me here or who support my opinion think like that also...

But you forgot about the purity! innocence! about DON'T FREAKIN CARING FOR SOME STEREOTYPES AND DON'T LETTING THE EVIL MOULDS OF THE WORLD MANIPULATE YOU! BUT DOING WHAT YOU FEEL IS RIGHT FOR THE BEST OF EVERYONE! YES! EVEN FOR THOSE WHO CREATED THOSE MOULDS AND WHO ARE EVIL...
FOR FIGHTING IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN!?

Without that, what Goku would do??? he would fall at the first villain...But it was his righteous feelings and faith that kept him going on and succeeding even when it seemed theoretically impossible...And he still was persistand and on and on! fighting to the last drop!

Well my friend, think about it good... think about what WE are doing and what YOU are doing...
I don't say you're a villain here of course hehe Very Happy but you should not be telling all these things and then claiming that you are DB fan...You don't have to be against the DB LAM(though I think its perfectly logical for some fan to be) but at least dont think we're doing wrong just because you don't understand us...
for the millionth time - We wouldn't be doing all this if we wouldn't be so much against it...simple enough...

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:21 pm

Based on your reaction you seem to think that I am wildly anticipating this movie. You keep saying that I am not a DB/Z fan because I am not outraged by this movie. Why? I could care one way or another whether this movie is made or not. I am simply stating why the reasoning behind this petition is flawed. The fact that I'm not signing the petition, doesn't have thing one to do with my opinions on dragonball. I won't even post about the economic system anymore, because apparently no one here understands anything about economics. You can hide behind "DBZ is art" all you want. DB/Z was art once upon a time. As soon as Toriyama-sensei put it in a magazine, published it as a manga it became a business. You go to ebay and type in Dragonball Z. List out how many plush dolls, action figures, comics, dvds, manga volumes, wallets, keychains, statues, t-shirts, towels, costumes and anything else that has a dbz logo/character/design on it and then tell me they are not trying to make money. How rich do you think Toriyama-sensei is?

Either way, I doubt anyone is actually going to pay attention to what my posts actually say, because all I've seen so far is recycling of the same answers over and over, that don't even address my points. They only exhibit a rabid closed-minded fanboyism that won't even consider a dissenting opinion. Another reason why this petition will fail (like it ever had a chance anyway). To be able to argue for something you have to understand what you are disagreeing with and you refuse to do this. And since my presence here is merely tilting at distempered windmills, I shall now depart.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Tlaloc on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:03 am

Of course I have a grude against you guys! You banned me! Of course I did deserved the ban since I made extra accounts; but the main reason I got banned was because I fought against your untouchable little friend of Jake aka Shanks. Also because I was about to show proof that according to the educational system in México; America is a continent, not just the USA.

I have been a fan of Dragon Ball since 1995 as it begun to air in Mexico on the last trimester of that year (but I had heard of Dragon Ball way before). Now, here in Mexico, despite being aired at children; it aired uncensored and uncut just like all anime that we used to get in those times. But thanks to the interest of anime in the US as something mainstream, were are now getting the edited versions of various anime here because both it is easier to translate English (that is the lame English dub from the States) and because of legal issuesof being part of a continent, which has the same "name" as the country which rules the world. That is whay I have learned to appreciate Dragon Ball for what it trully is, unlike in the US where DB has been showcased as something completely altered. While indeed, DB was shown in the US before DBZ, because of the terrible handling of DB, they believe DBZ came first and that DB is a prequel. Also in order to "adapt" it to US audiences, they gave some really terrible lines plus unnecesary background music, altering what the original true product really is. That is why there are DB haters, because they have only seen the US versions, and believe it is all like that and won't give the real DB a chance. And as for the ones who gave the chance to DB like that, they think DB is corny and then influence the rest of the world making them think that. I believe you fall into that category.

All of that is a little hard and long to explain, but first let's go to other things. I was going to do a long post, but after seeing what it is your last post; I will change somethings. I am sorry, but we just can't agree with you. You say you don't even care which way the movie goes yet you are a DB fan, you say that DB is not art just because merchandise of it exists which is at least related to the original thing instead of the film in the making, you say we are closed minded because we are die hard fans that can't accept change. But that is right, we are real fans of DB and we can't stand the mock they are making of it with this film. Some say we should take it as a parody, the case is... that it is not a parody, it is an official film! The only think they have in common are the title and the names, but out of it, it has nothing to do with the true Dragon Ball. I wouldn't be surprised that Fox decides to make his version the "true official one" over the original making a retcon. And worse is that they think real fans are dumb that we will settle for anything they throw us no matter the quality. Does it mean that if we are true DB fans, we should get whatever has the Dragon Ball name no matter what it is? You mean that as fans we should by "the official" Dragon Ball dog excrement just because it has the Dragon Ball name on it? We are not that dumb. I won't give Fox any money for something like this, since that is all they care; money by using just the DB name. Heck! I think they could get way more money if the story gets to be faitful, but sadly they are not that greedy lol. I know it would be silly to place all of DB into a film, but at least place what DB is, starting with Goku as a young boy, instead of some emo teenage wasteland.

Problem is that now it seems we are a minority and all of your kind are the majority and have the upper hand. Heck, they even think that Akira Toriyama is a hack and that James Wong's feces are made of gold! Girls are haunted by Justin Chatwin just because he is cute, Emmy Rossum has no clue, Jaime Chung is a no talent fresa and... this movie just should not be. That we should settle for anything... yeah right... and if we don't think like you guys, we are ordered to shut up like it happens in other boards and as that gangsta thug of Kaypain told Vegeta_DTX to go to hell for being against the film. I smell that Kaypain, Corey Wilson and Texas Battle are related somehow. Maybe they want to make DB into a blackxpoltation movie. I am sure that if we say all of this at liveactionanime we would get banned for sure, but it seems that you won't come back to pull your scare tactics on us, after all, we are not as "intelligent and mature" as you are John! You are a way better person that us and consider us the bad guys for being against the film. I was going to tell you to bring in all of your little friends from liveactionanime and speak all you want, don't worry, we won't ban you! We don't think of ourselves as all mighty gods who shut down whoever does not agree with us. You can come in and insult us moderators all you want, just don't be jerks to others like Shanks. Speaking of which, tell him to come in too. Oh, but you are not going to read this because you cowardly departed just because we are not as smart as you in economics.

For now I end, not sure what else could I say.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:21 am

As soon as Toriyama-sensei put it in a magazine, published it as a manga it became a business.
Thats absolutely not true...He just published it... the rest of what happened is not his fault but the fault of the ones like you...

You go to ebay and type in Dragonball Z. List out how many plush dolls, action figures, comics, dvds, manga volumes, wallets, keychains, statues, t-shirts, towels, costumes and anything else that has a dbz logo/character/design on it and then tell me they are not trying to make money. How rich do you think Toriyama-sensei is?
If those merchandises would be made by mr.Toriyama it wouldn't be a business...Because thats the way he wanted... and if he don't think thats wrong making an action figure of Goku than its not(and its not at all if the figure is Faithful)But since many of them are done by someone else, I don't even consider it as DB/Z, I just consider it as - trying to get quick cash based on someones hardwork...
Toriyama-Sensei is probably rich but he deserved it and he earned it all with his hard work...He Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru and the rest of the crew from TOEI made DB/Z THE WAY THEY WANTED and thats what art is about...For the difference, Hollywood make movie the way majority of people want(not DB fans! I repeat - PEAOPLE) and thats called business...

Either way, I doubt anyone is actually going to pay attention to what my posts actually say, because all I've seen so far is recycling of the same answers over and over, that don't even address my points
HOW CAN YOU SAY SUCH THING!? like you are joking?
Even though you are supporting the movie and you against us(correctly though) I let you post here and freely tell your opinion (which is against the rules btw, but its ok I am Admin and I let you...) I was correct towards you whole time even though it kills me to read the opinion of a "DB fan" who is not against this movie and I directly answer you straight on the point, YET YOU still keep talking about the economics even though we all know the way those wretched economics work. YOU are the one who miss the point...YOU are the one asked something like - DO YOU SUPPORT THAT ECONOMIC SYSTEM!? DO YOU THINK THE EXPLOITATION AND RUINING OF CARTOONS JUST FOR THE MONEY IS OK?
And you keep talking about something else...
After it, we are the ones who miss the point??

They only exhibit a rabid closed-minded fanboyism that won't even consider a dissenting opinion
Wow!? so "open minded" means soft, easy manipulated, without sense for moral? oh then I'm proudly "close minded"

Let me tell you something, right because we are against this movie that means that we have something more than you, that we have wider mind than you, at least for those few things and those few things are called sense of loyalty, sense of moral and and sense of art respect...

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by ningen on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:39 am

HAHAHA, I know I shouldn't be laughing, but man, I just can't believe that someone is that stupid.
I was waiting for some real arguments, but it looks like this guy is just a classic example of stupidity.
There you have it ppl, this is what we're up against. Because of the mindless people like him, a certain (careless and uncreative)businessman can produce (with the least amount of effort needed)something horrible like this movie and still get praised for it.
I would be ashamed, but, hey, "I don't know a thing about economy". XD
I'm just worried about those kids out there, they will watch the movie and get a false image of DB in their heads.
Like that poor fellow they'll just be a part of that "great" system, unable to think for themselves, to create a one original thought.
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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Tlaloc on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:16 pm

And me trying to give a long reply, when the guy is a coward. He will say he is trying to be polite, when he is actually being politically correct.

Just look at his picture:


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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:37 am

Oh ok! wait wait! don't flame him that way, ok ok, he was totally wrong and all but ok at least he didn't enter here just to flame us and say "U ALL SUX!" and such comments that makes me sick...
He was correct, so at least respect that.

Believe me! I'm mostly disgusted with what he says, I am completely disappointed that someone who call himself a "DB fan" can tell such things! I am really disappointed to think that there are many "DB fans" of that kind...most of any of you...
And I totally disagree with him, but at least he was correct toward us and our forum, and just because of that he shouldn't be bashed now...

Even though it would be nice if he wouldn't appear at all because rules are that way, and if I would let everyone like I let him then what kind of protest forum would this be Very Happy

All in all, at least I hope he understood what we wanted to say, so that those words can come back into his mind one day when he'll eventually fall in the similar situation...
and we certainly understood him but absolutely disagree of course...
Thats all.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Infinitus on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:56 am

Stryyder wrote:And again, I know you don't care whether or not your petition goes through or not, but here's the odds:

1) Hollywood gives in, shelves the current movie and any plans for sequels they have. Result: They now are out millions of dollars and have a bunch of fans that were waiting for the movie mad at them.

2) Hollywood releases the first, but then agrees not to release sequels. Result: They make money on the first, then no more and have the fans who want more mad at them.

3) Hollywood releases the first movie, then makes sequels. Result: they make a lot of money on the movies and have the fans that don't want the movie mad at them.

You forgot number four: Hollywood releases the first movie, it bombs in the box office. Result: The studio has a big loss on their hands and angry/disappointed fans.

The thing I don't get, is how can people determine the movie will be awesome from a few stills that look nothing like it's source?? confused

It's like if there was a live action movie coming out on Gurren Lagann and the still pics that came out showed Simon as some bad-ass rebel kid wearing dark colored clothing and Kamina as some decrepit old fart. DOES NOT MAKE F'N SENSE!!!

The only reason Transformers attracted fans was because they used Optimus Prime's original voice actor, Peter Cullen. The designs were and are GOD AWE FULL!! They half-assed incorporating Prime's old design to attract more fans as well (FLAMES!?! WTF?), but I digress, it puzzles me as to why, all these "true fans" love the character designs.





Also, scronny Justin Chatfail is scronny!
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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:18 am

^Absolutely
They ask us how we can judge the movie before we see it(and we saw tons of AWFUL pics) and they are excited and are looking forward to it(and they also saw tons of awful pics)...
Seriously if someone think that this movie looks like DB, he never watched DB or he sniffed the 50 000 tons of crack through 0.1 mm wide straw....

And about Transformers I agree... Action was good and all, BUT THATS NOT TRANSFORMERS!!! like a movie it was maybe ok but like Transformers it EPICLY SUCKED...Design looks interesting and great done BUT ITS NOTHING LIKE TRANSFORMERS DAMN IT!!! its completely different....
and thats not a good adaptation...

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:06 pm

Ok, I'll come back to state a few points that I feel need to be resolved.

Firstly, on my last point. I will apoligize. Bad day for me, and I did go overboard.

Secondly, as I stated in at least 2 of my points, I am NOT in favor of this movie. That said, I'm not going to go out of my way to rail against it. More power to you guys, but it's just not something that is that important to me. I enjoy the original source, and this movie has nothing to do with the original source.

Third, Tlaloc, I just want to know what my picture has to do with anything. Cards on the table, why do you have it out for me and the others from the LAA forum? You disobeyed rules and fought with Shanks, we banned you both. The main reason we didn't unban you, then or now, is because you chose to post pictures about our members and vulgar disgusting things about them on a website, saying that they are homosexuals and should die, just because you don't like them. Then you came back and threatened legal action because you believed that us banning you caused your computer to get hacked, with no proof either way. I explained our position to you and you apparently called me a "Thug" because we weren't going to back down to your scare tactics That picture of me is on my myspace and the LAA forum, big deal, I'm not going to go off about using a picture after I am the one who put it on the internet, but my question is, what does it have to do with anything? Do you just like putting up peoples pictures and make fun of them when they disagree with you?

Fourth, yeah, there is always the possibility that the movie will bomb, but to me, logically, I doubt it will. Kids will see it as an action movie and go to watch it whether or not they know what DB is. Some fans will go see it, regardless, to see how it holds up to the manga/anime. Then there are the people who have no idea what it is, but will go see it to have something to do on a saturday night. With the current state of movie theatres, anything that comes along that has some background in another media, such as books or anime, will automatically garner attention. Again, these aren't my opinions on how the movie will be, these are just opinions on how I think it will go, because of the movie industry. Whether I agree with it or not, it's there.

Whether or not I even care about the movie, it is going to come out, sequels are already being made. If people want to go see it and be blind to the source material, that is their choice. The fact is they went to Toriyama, he gave them permission. He would have had to read the script and greenlight the project for it to have even go anywhere, since it was his creation and his lisence they are making. And whatever his motives were for letting them, again, what I believe doesn't matter because it is happening. So as I said before, you guys have every right to protest it, but I have the same right not to. In my opinion it won't make a difference either way.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Tlaloc on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:28 pm

OK Stryyder, you have earned some respect from me after I called you a coward but came back and made me eat my words.

At first I was not mad at you, I got mad at you because you were the one who gave me the message instead of Son Goshin directly; and so I considered you his PR person, or thug as I said. Now I spoke with many people about liveactionanime and me being banned from there to prevent them for going there. Randy told me about the blog. I am sure that the one who placed all that on that antihomosexuality site was someone who I talked to about the boards, I Tlaloc do not use the El Viola Lesbianas account it probably is a friend of mine. The guy even said that someone reported you guys, so I guess he meant me, then he placed all about it with him placing the style of mexican crude humor he learned from pincheschinos, while I am against most of the individuals mentioned, I do believe he took it too far on OtakuKawaii86 being too gross.

Also you exaggerated something, you said I want you guys dead; that is not what I feel and I not even El Viola Lesbianas placed that. What El Viola Lesbians does besides being against homosexuality is to be against sites which he or someone else considers bad, and goes and tell that they are homosexuals or in favor of it. liveactionanime was not the only forum mentioned, there was also Foros DZ which is famous in Latin America and Spain but now has an antisite called Inferno DZ and other sites were mentioned with the same fashion.

Anyway, El Viola Lesbiana's site got closed so I guess that is the end of that. We can recover our lost info now, so my family may no longer have to go legal on liveactionanime and I got accepted back into college (but had to leave the police) after we... the headmaster got kicked out by porros. I said that if I got unbanned, it would be proof that none at liveactionanime hacked me and no need for charges, guess that is what he meant with scare tactics.

Not sure if I still need to return to liveactionanime, even if I got unbanned I would not post anymore to prevent trouble; plus I get better treatment here and can actually post my ideas with out any repression. Plus we would deal with jerks like Shanks. Still if he comes here, he is welcome, but if he goes smartass then...

I placed your picture so that people can see that while you sound mature and all, you are still young and are in a long road to achieve maturity, mine is longer than yours.

About the DB moive, well guess that solves it for you; but still I don't have many hopes for the petition but I for sure will boycott the film. We need some way to tell that real fans can't be fooled nor settle for less. And we will fight to the end, even if we are considered the bad guys by guys like the ones at all those pro sites.

Or what are you going to do since we disagree with you? Ban me from here?

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:14 pm

For what it is worth, Shanks is gone. Whether it was you or not on the other website, you were the one quoted there, as well as on Smashboards doing the same thing. I personally don't care anymore. I won't bother asking your age because there is really no way for you to prove it online but I'll infer you are still college age, and if that is so, then I certainly am older than you. You say I "sound" mature, but then say I am not really, so where's the proof of that? By a picture taken of me? Considering you have no idea when the picture was taken or how old I am based on how I look, but if you prefer simply to infer, go ahead.
I was the one who wrote you that letter because I was the only one level headed enough, and detached enough from the situation, to explain our position clearly. I volunteered to do so for Goshin, he and the other staff read it, agreed and it was sent to you. I wasn't acting as a thug, just as a voice explaining the situation.

Whether you disagree with me isn't the point. I could care less if you disagree with me, but I would prefer that such disagreements are stated in a mature way, rather than threatening.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Basher on Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:08 am

You guys are addicted to long posts.My eyes hurt. Shocked Sorry for the off-topic.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:57 am

What can we do... when you are explaining something it must be long...
But don't worry not all posts are like these Wink

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Tlaloc on Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:20 pm

Stryyder wrote:The fact is they went to Toriyama, he gave them permission. He would have had to read the script and greenlight the project for it to have even go anywhere, since it was his creation and his lisence they are making.

I am going to talk about this first, I am very sure that Toriyama sensei was also very thrilled to have a film on his work and that is why he and Toei gave the rights to FOX. But I am sure they would ahd never imagined they would end up with... this... and now regret giving the rights.

So called fans who are in favor of the movie, back themselves up with something that Akira Toriyama actually said when the rights were given to Fox, can't find what he said right now, but he said something like that thanks to movies many great worlds can be seen. However that was back before FOX would show the travesty we know now; we don't know what Akira Toriyama thinks of things now, but if he gave permission that was before the drastic horrible changes and let's not forget that Akira Toriyama was fired by FOX because he wanted too much control. Too much control???!!! It is his creation!!!! He has every right to supervize and do stuff related to his own work! I would not be surprised one bit if all of the sudden FOX decides to make their DB the "official" one by getting into legal issues by removing all rights to Akira Toriyama!

If you were a real fan, you would care; but you say you are not that great of a fan like us; or as how we are beign called, "sickies," "narrow minded," etc.

And also, like I said, I guess you are not the coward, but Son Goshin and the others. Wonder what they will do with someone they disagree with in real life? Will they ban them?

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:28 am

Tlaloc, I must disagree with you on this, because I am pretty sure Akira Toriyama never wanted live action movie in the first place.

Here is how I know that - an interview with one of the mr.Toriyama's "very good friend"(thats how they labeled him, I don't remember who it was, it quite possibly may be mr.Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru...)
That interview was on the old Funimation forum or such, and he said something like "No DBZ just cant be transfered into live action, its too specific and too stylized to become a live action movie."
So since we hear that from someone who's very close to Akira, why would Akira think different?

And the second proof - No trustworthy site has announced that anyone gave rights to Fox. And that interview where "Akira Toriyama wanted too much control and got the boot" is considered as fake rumor since 2006 or 2007.

What is even more weird is that one guy(for which I really doubt that he would lie just like that) said that he asked TOEI manager(or such) via mail, it was something like "Did you gave the licence or rights to Fox for the live action movie?"(it sounded much more formal and polite, and it was on Japanese of course), and they actually answered him!!! and he said that answer was something like "No, we receive hundreds of questions like this one, no license nor rights are given and we don't know where you find those information".

There are only some unofficial information on some not trustworthy sites like "In the 2002. Fox Found the rights for making the Dragon Ball Z movie"

Nothing is for sure, who knows... But since NOBODY officially confirmed that Fox has rights I still strongly believe that they really don't HAVE the rights.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Tlaloc on Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:03 pm

Oh sorry, it is just that in some place I read what it seemed something Toriyama said, but maybe it is another invention by those who support this sorry excuse of a film.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:38 am

Yeah, also this interview I mentioned could be false as well, but I hope its not! Time will tell....

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Re: Just a personal opinion

Post by Stryyder on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:29 pm

Hey, me again. Not going to pick a fight, just an observance. While Toei currently has the rights to the Dragonball franchise, as the creator Toriyama still has creative control over it. For any company to do a movie containing any character, name, title, or likeness to the franchise they would have had to get permission from both the franchise owner and the creator. As such, at any time the creator or franchise owner can rescind those rights if they don't agree with the end product. This is a matter of law. If Toriyama or Toei disagreed with how this movie has been made they have full rights to sue the production company.

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Re: Just a personal opinion

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