Is God Real?

by Chulance Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:49 pm

Rules of this topic
Discuss your opinion's on God's existence.
This is not meant to be a flame war, an intelligent discussion

First Off I have a good quote about my belief in God.

The Absence of Evidence, is not the evidence of absence.

by lol1991 Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:37 pm

This is pointless and trollbait (if this forum had trolls that is)

Anyway, you cannot prove something DOESN'T exist, you can only prove it's existence, or prove the existence of something that contradicts the first.

As a response, you are saying God, I assume, in the sense of the Judaic-Christian

In this case, evolution proves the existence of that God wrong, as God in Christianity is stated to have created all life on Earth as it is now seen, yet evolution proves a change in the world as it went along.

However, it'll forever be impossible to dispel the idea of a Creator that manages to laws of the universe, including evolution. it's just since the Christian religion doesn't assume their God to be behind evolution (they refute it completely) then their God doesn't exist

There, done

by Chulance Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:58 pm

This isn't troll bait, I wanted to learn everyone's opinions on the such.

Well what your using is a Universal Negative. You cannot say something isn't real, without being everywhere at every time. For example you can't say it's impossible to have super powers. Unless you are in every moment at time, at every..place. As I said

The Absence of Evidence, isn't the Evidence of Absence.

There is NO proof of Evolution Lol. It proves life evolves over time, but there's no proof of such. I don't see anything evolving right know can you show me something evolving? I actually have proof that God exists, aside from the Bible.

For example..Pangea. I believe all continents. were originally one, and that a Flood separated all of the continents. There are records all around the world especially in other culture's about a flood. There are paintings of massive waves, and things such as that.

And of course God is active in the modern world.

by lol1991 Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:10 pm

Chulance wrote:
And of course God is active in the modern world.

Pics or it didn't happen!

And I will not bother proving the fucking concept of evolution here. I'd have to go into molecular biology, animal behavior, animal taxonomy, and tons of other shit to do so, and I seriously don't feel like it.
But, since I'm such a nice guy

There is a natural variation inside a species, caused by mutations in the genetic code. A good example is the color of certain butterflies. The one with the better color will survive, while the other dies. This was observed during the Industrial Boom in England
White butterflies, that had previously been dominant over black, had their natural camouflage destroyed by the smoke, that made the surroundings more gray. Black butterflies then became dominant, as their color was better adapted.

Now, proceeding, the theory of evolutions rests on this (not just, but essentially). It's survival of the fittest in laymen terms.
Basically, along the billions of years that this Earth has existed for, the loving beings evolved through series of changes.

That's it really. Do not force me to search up sources to further humiliate you. Evolution is the widely accepted theory. Come up with a solid rebuttal without resort to an divine entity (that shit doesn't fly in scientific debates) and then you'll be able to talk shit. Until then, face it, evolution is cannon to this manga that is our world

Only the shit crazy Evangelicals are still refuting it, and they're as bad as the Muslims Extremist.

As for Pangea, that shit was due to geological movements of the Earth's plaques

And this is proven because said movements are still taking place. Experts say that the current placement of the land masses will alter itself greatly

by Setsuna F. Seiei Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:20 am

Am I Real?

by ningen Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:03 am

Is the entity known as Setsuna just a Higgs particle hidding behind a picture of a cosplayer???!!!1111

by Setsuna F. Seiei Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:10 pm

Really am I?

by Son Goku Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:28 pm

I don't deny evolution or God. If God is all powerful, He can create life however He wants to. To sort of quote South Park - to say there is no God is as equally presumptuous as saying there is a God.

by Tlaloc Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:23 pm

I can't hide this anymore, sorry I tried to hide it to prevent trouble, specially with members like lol1991; but I want to believe in God.

It is just that lately, I feel like everyone specially at the internet; have force me into becoming atheist as it seems to make people better. But I just don't like atheism, and while I am losing faith in God, I do want to believe that out there, there is a higher power hard to understand for our minds.

And also yes, how can Evolution deny God? Even if things change by adapting themselves, where did they originate?

by ningen Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:10 am

Higgs Particles from the future, we're looking in your direction.

by Setsuna F. Seiei Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:15 am

No Way

by 4Neodemon Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:03 am

Tlaloc wrote:

And also yes, how can Evolution deny God? Even if things change by adapting themselves, where did they originate?

Evolution do not deny god... Only the ones who believe in God, deny evolution (almost everyone, to be fair)... If God exists, then he created an universe full of laws and rules... everything that happens in the universe can be explained with the laws of physics. Einstein believed in God (Not exactly the bible God), he even tried to create an equation that could "read the mind of God"...
Biotic life have rules too... they evolve in order to adapt to the environment changes (or die..lol), they need to eat to generate energy, they need to breathe, sleep..etc!! Even our planet to be able to support life need some adaptations like the electromagnetic field for example!!!
So everything can be explained! I do not know the bible very well, but i think there is nothing there that contradict or deny evolution... the problem is some people that cannot accept that humans evolved from apes... so those people make religion in their image, so if they do not believe in evolution, then people who contradict them are against God...

Those are not God rules.. only people selfishness!
I know the bible says that God create Man to His image, but that may be a problem of interpretation... for example, that statement perhaps might mean that Humans are like God... capable of good and evil (at least is less superficial than the original..lol).. plus the bible was changed and a lot of parts were burned during Roman times... that proves that religion that exists nowadays is a product of the human selfishness minds and not facts. (The bible even says that women = sin, so Jesus can not be maried...lol... typicall from human retrogade minds of those times.. I seriously doubt that God think like that..lol... and ETC)

Plus God do not explain the origin of everything, because who created God?? or how He came to life?? Why he created the universe?? Is there an afterlife?? Are humans His only creation?? (If not the rest of the universe is a waste of space..lol)... That is something that is impossible to answer... even with a time machine..lol.

Sylar wrote:[b]
The Absence of Evidence, is not the evidence of absence.

That statement contradicts itself scratch

Plus you want to see evolution?? you see it everywhere (in real time)... when a bacteria, a virus or even insects become resistant to our drugs, its evolution in progress... (and its not an adaptation because their genetic material change, so it needs mutations in their genome to gain the resistant gene=evolution).. Since those are less complex beings, smaller, with short life time, and huge offspring, evolution takes less time to act!!
Humans for example needed millions of years to become what they are now... fossil records show us apelike humans with huge brains, bipedal locomotion, capable of fire manipulation and complex cutting tools.. (anthropobiology from my university...lol...)

by Son Goku Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:45 am

Yeah, Tlaloc. I remember in one of my college courses, we all did this little activity where the believers in evolution would stand on one side of the room and the non-believers would stand on the other.

Half the class stood on each side. The non-believers were hardcore bible-belt Christians who believe in the Bible word for word. Most of the ones who believed in evolutions weren't Atheists either.

You know what? I'm a Catholic and I don't take everything in the Bible literally. Heck, I even have serious doubts over stories like Noah's Ark, which seems to me to be a Jewish remake of an event that happened in the pagan story "The Epic of Gilgamesh" where a goddess or someone told him to build an ark because of a flood. It basically went exactly the same way as the Noah story, except the birds (dove and raven) he released to find land was in reverse order.

Obviously I don't take the 7 days, 7 nights Adam and Eve story literally at all, even some of the stories of the adventures of David and Solomon. I believed in those stories when I was a kid but after I grew up, I decided myself what I wanted to believe in and didn't base it off atheists or hardcore Bible-beaters aka being tool by basing your opinions/belief's based on others. I don't even agree with a lot of the things the Catholic Church says to believe. Heck, even they disagree with themselves and always change the rules, like that belief that unbaptized babies who die go to Limbo. After the latest pope took over, the new rules said they go to Heaven.

So while I disagree with or don't believe in the stuff I'm 'told to', it doesn't mean I don't believe in God. If you want to believe in God, nobodies stopping you, Tlaloc and you're not an idiot for it either no matter what some of the ruder, outspoken Atheists say (not talking about anyone on this board).

by justinlynch3 Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:27 am

Sylar wrote:[b]
The Absence of Evidence, is not the evidence of absence.

That statement contradicts itself

Not Chu's first time doing that lol.
Razz

by Chulance Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:27 pm

Evolution isn't real. Those are words, show me a video. If it's real, show me video proof of stuff evolving.

Pangea was because of the Flood. Smile

And of course Setsuna is real. Very Happy

Good job Tlaloc coming out with your beliefs. Don't hide them. Evolution undermines God's power, He created the world in 7 days...not using evolution. He created everything by saying words.

So Neodemon, the first Genesis denies Evolution completely. These are God's rules, your not very knowledable of the Bible. Then your saying Bible readers don't know what there reading. You can have opinions, but you can't tell me what the bible dosen't say.The Bible IS NOT changed, nor ever will be. God will keep it safe.

God ALWAYS existed, we don't need to know how. God was here, and know we are. He created the rest of the universe for companionship, and the rest of the universe was created to show us all his vast power and intellect.

My comment does NOT contradict itself. I'm here to clear up confusion about what the Bible says, not so much debate.

by justinlynch3 Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:43 pm

Science can explain everything in human existence so far, from everything down to how the Earth itself came to be.

Is there some higher power that might of started the universe in general, maybe, I don't know and frankly don't care. But to claim a god created everything. Created Earth, life, people, etc, etc, etc.

I'm all for people having their own believes, but as for me, I don't see it. Evolution simply makes sense. God... not so much.

But as I say, that's just me. Not everyone is the same.

by ningen Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:07 pm

justinlynch3 wrote:Science can explain everything in human existence so far, from everything down to how the Earth itself came to be.

I hate to waste my time on debates such as this one but I just had to interfere when I read this.
Lol, Justin, that's not exactly true. We are still far away from understanding the principles of this fascinating universe. What do you think scientist are doing right now? - Watching pr0n while the money pours in from the sponsors of various projects while they already have...all the answers...in their drawers... Shocked

ZOMG

by justinlynch3 Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:21 pm

Guess I can't argue there.

by Chulance Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:24 pm

Justin, WHY does God not make sense, and evolution?

You think something as precious as life, and complex was created in an accident? That human civilization is nothing more then a mistake, formed by a massive explosion? I believe in God. Human life is something delicate, the condition' of earth were designed perfectly for humans. Oxygen, and water, just to the right amount needed for human survival. The planet earth is place din the proper poistion, needed for the sun's rays to keep us warm, but not eradicate us.

How can all of this be on a mere accident? this is my question for atheists, and those who support evolution.

by justinlynch3 Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:45 pm

It's simply luck.

There are many, many factors that could wipe out the human race tomorrow if it where to happen. Our existence, the existence of most life on this planet, is merely a case of luck. However, like the dinosaurs before us, our clock is slowly counting down. We won't live forever, and when we go, life will start over again. New species will adopt to the new condition, etc, etc.

by 4Neodemon Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:07 am

Sylar wrote:Evolution isn't real. Those are words, show me a video. If it's real, show me video proof of stuff evolving.

Pangea was because of the Flood.

And of course Setsuna is real. Good job Tlaloc coming out with your beliefs. Don't hide them. Evolution undermines God's power, He created the world in 7 days...not using evolution. He created everything by saying words.

So Neodemon, the first Genesis denies Evolution completely. These are God's rules, your not very knowledable of the Bible. Then your saying Bible readers don't know what there reading. You can have opinions, but you can't tell me what the bible dosen't say.The Bible IS NOT changed, nor ever will be. God will keep it safe.

God ALWAYS existed, we don't need to know how. God was here, and know we are. He created the rest of the universe for companionship, and the rest of the universe was created to show us all his vast power and intellect.

My comment does NOT contradict itself. I'm here to clear up confusion about what the Bible says, not so much debate.

Sylar, i can not show you a video of that...lol... BUT i could show you my experiments (in the lab university) if you were here in Portugal...lol, it was a simple experiment: we (me and my lab friends) induce plants to evolve... for example creating plants resistant to antimetabolits (without using genetic engineering)!! We put plants (in callus phase) in contact with some antimetabolite (its like poison for them) and after some subcultures we get one or few plants resistant to that stuff (the others simply die)! And then we determine the new plant DNA using the Southern Blot technique and then we compare it with the original plant... and its different = evolution!!! You do noit believe in me? If you do not believe in such simple experiments like the one above, how in the hell you trust in doctors?? Common...

Pangea splitted because of the movement of tectonic plates... its still happening (The displacement of the tectonic plates of South America, deviates about 1.5 centimeters per year in relation to the African continent)

The first Genesis is clearly child stories.. you know why? Because as i previous said, everything in our universe work based on rules and laws... Earth's biotic and abiotic life is still in "creation", because both plants, animals and landscape are still changing.. its a work in progress..lol... God may have created Earth in 7 days, but life only appeared millions of years later (this information is given by our planet itself..lol), and its still evolving, changing, adapting... you can not deny that!! Denying that is denying for example the dinossaurs bones.... Now i will ask you a thing: If God created every single being by just snap is fingers (and lets assume that they do not evolve), how the new species (that replace the ones extinct) came from?? I never saw an organism popping in front of me like magic..lol... Even more pertinent question: If Earth have only a few thousand years like the bible says, how in the hell could humans lived on Earth with creatures like the dinossaurs?? affraid

We would be extinct in days...LOL... Everything have rules (created or not created by God) and life only work because of them!!

The bible was changed and lot of parts were burned in Roman times... This is said by religious people who study the bible and Jesus story... Its a fact!! More important... the ones who make different interpretations from the bible story are religious people (at least, those that are interested in knowing the true)... those are the ones who do not take the bible literally, because even them admit (assuming that the story is true) that the bible is full of metaphors and stuff like that... Seriously Sylar, you are not updated lol!

Sylar wrote:Justin, WHY does God not make sense, and evolution?

You think something as precious as life, and complex was created in an accident? That human civilization is nothing more then a mistake, formed by a massive explosion? I believe in God. Human life is something delicate, the condition' of earth were designed perfectly for humans. Oxygen, and water, just to the right amount needed for human survival. The planet earth is place din the proper poistion, needed for the sun's rays to keep us warm, but not eradicate us.

How can all of this be on a mere accident? this is my question for atheists, and those who support evolution.

See... you described an universe full of rules and laws... And as you know the environment changes.. how can species adapt to those conditions without evolution? Life may appeared in an accident or maybe God created it.. BUT to work, life needed certain conditions and evolution is one of them. (without evolution is like putting the Earth mor far away from the sun = life would disappear).

by Son Goku Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:41 pm

Sylar wrote:Evolution isn't real. Those are words, show me a video. If it's real, show me video proof of stuff evolving.

Pangea was because of the Flood.

And of course Setsuna is real. Good job Tlaloc coming out with your beliefs. Don't hide them. Evolution undermines God's power, He created the world in 7 days...not using evolution. He created everything by saying words.

So Neodemon, the first Genesis denies Evolution completely. These are God's rules, your not very knowledable of the Bible. Then your saying Bible readers don't know what there reading. You can have opinions, but you can't tell me what the bible dosen't say.The Bible IS NOT changed, nor ever will be. God will keep it safe.

God ALWAYS existed, we don't need to know how. God was here, and know we are. He created the rest of the universe for companionship, and the rest of the universe was created to show us all his vast power and intellect.

My comment does NOT contradict itself. I'm here to clear up confusion about what the Bible says, not so much debate.

by Jessica Raine Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:24 am

I just try not to think about it.
But I think there is a god.
or at least an afterlife.

by lol1991 Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:42 pm

Homer makes everything better

Also, let me point out, evolution proves the JUDAIC-CHRISTIAN GOD wrong, not the existence of a creator (which I personally believe in. My nickname for him is "the bastard upstairs)

I've read the bible, and I know it sates numerous times that the theory of Creationism the truth and fact
If evolution is the contrary of creationism, and thus, proves it wrong, the Bible is also proven wrong on this account.
If God as the Christians see him didn't have anything to do with Evolution, then this God cannot be real

However, this itself is a flawed argument, as proving something exists is just as impossible as proving something doesn't exists
For example, concepts like "nothing" are flawed in the sense that once you give them a mental form (by the means of the word) You devoid them of meaning. Nothing means there is nothing, and if the word exists then by our own concept there is something.

by Jessica Raine Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:40 pm

my brain hurts.

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