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So...as anime finally met it's match...

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So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by lol1991 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:41 am

IN FUCKING CHRISTIAN ASSES!!!
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-03-09/tokyo-bill-on-virtual-child-porn-set-for-march-vote
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-03-15/creators-decry-tokyo-proposed-virtual-child-porn-ban

Also:
http://www.jca.apc.org/ncc-j/english/profile.htm

ALL OF MY HATE!!!

WHAT ARE THEY THINKING! THIS IS THE GREATEST PIECE OF BULLSHIT THAT HAS COME OUT OF JAPAN SINCE FUCKING TENTACLE PORN!! IT'S BUUUUUUUULLLLLSHIIIITT

WHAT THE FUCK!!!

This better not pass...or I will be in such rage...seriously, this is an offense to some of the most basic ideals of freedom of expression!!

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by ningen on Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:43 am

Illustrated child pornography is a very interesting issue, both in the sphere of law and outside of it. As a law student I can tell you that there are a lot of grounds for such actions. I don't agree with the insanely long sentences that are being given in some countries for possessing such illustrated material though.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by sonaditya on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:24 pm

Man, the Japanese put creativity in whatever they do...[no offences, guys]
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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by lol1991 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:25 pm

ningen wrote:Illustrated child pornography is a very interesting issue, both in the sphere of law and outside of it. As a law student I can tell you that there are a lot of grounds for such actions. I don't agree with the insanely long sentences that are being given in some countries for possessing such illustrated material though.

But, see here's the thing, it isn't just loli that's getting the b&hammer

Anything that constitutes a setting that gives the characters a LOOK of 18 and under, it's for the taking

Shit like Bleach would get banned because of all the fanservice involving Orihime (who, mind you, is 15 despite her looks) and Rukia (loli)
Things like Highshool of the Dead (I made a thread about it here) would get banned, because it's full out drawn by a hentai artist, yet the characters are all highschoolers.

Just about every anime and manga these days features fanservice, and the most profitable ones are profitable BECAUSE of said fanservice.

This band is going to affect mainstream anime as much as hentai and other shit, trust me

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Nikku on Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:15 pm

Well what a piece of shit. So basically, this means that no anime can have a kid in it now.

Soccer moms are invading everything now. Behold as all the anime in the world becomes far less interesting in the future due to lack of creativity!

Stupid morons, what a thing to happen.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by justinlynch3 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:49 pm

Back in the old days nobody cared what was shown on T.V. Now, everything that can be considered offensive or "not suitable for young viewers" is getting censored to shit or just plain canceled.

Well I have a message for people with younger people in their household, DON'T LET THE FUCKING CHILD WATCH THE DAMN SHOW!!!

The only reason T.V. is like it is today is because parents are to fucking irresponsible to look after their own children, so what do they do, they try to wreck the fun for everyone. Is it fear, no. Television gives warning on offensive shows, that's enough. If people still has a problem with it, broadcasters should say "look, we gave you your warning, if you refuse to listen, well to bad. Now fuck off."

How I wish I owned a broadcasting station, oh you think I'd cancel shows because people complained, hell no. If it keeps making me money, I'd show it, uncut to. The "soccer moms" could kiss my ass.

Just like Nikku said above, some day, T.V. will just be boring. There will be nothing fun showing due to irresponsible parents who can't control what their children watch.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by ningen on Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:59 pm

@NIkku
Lol, drama queen. XD
You don't need much creativity to draw busty-Orihime-getting-fondled-again or boob-buckets-in-action.
Saying that there won't be any kids in anime is like saying that all of the kids in anime are going to be the subjects of pornography.
@lol'91
Yeah, I get you, but you forget one thing. The artists would "only" need to adapt to the new law norms. So, anything that's done before it can't be banned and you can't be held responsible for it.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by lol1991 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:17 pm

ningen wrote:
@lol'91
Yeah, I get you, but you forget one thing. The artists would "only" need to adapt to the new law norms. So, anything that's done before it can't be banned and you can't be held responsible for it.

"facepalm"

You seriously show lack of understanding of the current medium. Look, we are all geeks here for one reason or another, I'm a geek because of anime and trust me, just about every show you know will get censored as fuck because of this. It's not even an adaption. It is COMPLETE BAN.

And, furthermore, this is assuming it's even okay to force the artists to adapt. It's a fucking art, don't like it, don't read it. Banning it for everyone is stupid
And, furthermore, what most annoys me is the fact Christians started this. This is why I hate religion in it's current form

Also, I doubt it will pass anyway. I'm just angry anyone would suggest it

Trust me, the current anime medium runs on fanservice, cute (kawaii/ moe~, etc) and t&a
I doubt that will change anytime soon, and while it's like this, the studios wont stand for it.
If you want to argue with me that assuming the medium runs on these things is dumb, trust me, it isn't. Sure, we still get good shows, but only because the medium makes money off of these things. The good shows hardly bring in any good money, the mainstream perverted shit does

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Jessica Raine on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:50 pm

;~; no more moe? Oh how the lolicons will weep...
and me, as it means 90% of anime will be frikkin illegal...

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Venus on Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:43 pm

What the heck is tentacle porn? O_o
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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Nikku on Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:10 pm

ningen wrote:@NIkku
Lol, drama queen. XD

*Sneaks up behind Ningen and bashes him on the head with a 2x4*

Grrr...

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Chulance on Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:55 am

PRAISE JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My prayers have been answered, I'm SO freaking happy. No more child porno! Manga Writers can finally have some decency in their writing. That's why I love Full Metal Alchemist, no fan service.. just hints. I'm not gay, but being a religious man I HATE porno, it's wrong. I've been praying for this to happen for months.

This isn't an expression of freedom, it's sin! God made this law pass, anything is possible with your power. Also Lol you misunderstand settings can have people 18 and younger, but they MUST be fully clothed. That's a good thing. If that restricts there writing, then there messed up. Bleach can change it's ways, and so can One piece as well.

Also lol Christians must do this! IT's the duty The Lord assigned us with, he calls out to us, and we must fight. The good shows have a chance to shine, with the perverted one's gone Lol. Think about it Full Metal Alchemist, and the likes which are epic, BUT lake fan service. NCCJ forever.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by ningen on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:51 am

Nikku wrote:
ningen wrote:@NIkku
Lol, drama queen. XD

*Sneaks up behind Ningen and bashes him on the head with a 2x4*

Grrr...
Stop, you're hurt yourself. :p

lol1991 wrote:
ningen wrote:
@lol'91
Yeah, I get you, but you forget one thing. The artists would "only" need to adapt to the new law norms. So, anything that's done before it can't be banned and you can't be held responsible for it.

"facepalm"

You seriously show lack of understanding of the current medium. Look, we are all geeks here for one reason or another, I'm a geek because of anime and trust me, just about every show you know will get censored as fuck because of this. It's not even an adaption. It is COMPLETE BAN.

And, furthermore, this is assuming it's even okay to force the artists to adapt. It's a fucking art, don't like it, don't read it. Banning it for everyone is stupid
And, furthermore, what most annoys me is the fact Christians started this. This is why I hate religion in it's current form

Also, I doubt it will pass anyway. I'm just angry anyone would suggest it

Trust me, the current anime medium runs on fanservice, cute (kawaii/ moe~, etc) and t&a
I doubt that will change anytime soon, and while it's like this, the studios wont stand for it.
If you want to argue with me that assuming the medium runs on these things is dumb, trust me, it isn't. Sure, we still get good shows, but only because the medium makes money off of these things. The good shows hardly bring in any good money, the mainstream perverted shit does
Hey, now...if anyone should be facepalaming himself to some of the statements here it's me.
Wait, if something becomes illegal how can you produce it then and censor it afterward? That makes no sense...If I understand it correctly (forgive me, I wasn't paying that much attention when I was reading parts of the articles) they want to put this laws in Japan, right? So as a citizen of Japan you couldn't even create stuff with child pornography in it. People this is child pornography we're talking about, what's wrong with you all? It's a complete ban, yes, but to the all future stuff. So artists would just have to adapt. I didn't say- they would have to adapt their previous work! I said they would have to have this in mind when creating new stuff, so they would have to adapt (themselves, not their already existing creations) and create it without child pornography in it.
I already said stuff about cultural, moral norms and customs in a separate topic about it. So I'll just sum it up here- artists are "free" to express themselves as long as that doesn't violate their own personal principles and the cultural, moral, religious, and the most important one of all- law norms. So all that artistic freedom, freedom of speech, etc. you mentioned is limited in the society we live in. It was always like that and it will continue to be like that, and those who aren't aware of it are living in illusions.
Edit:
I don't care who suggested it, the point is that it should be opened for a public debate. It will be interesting to see whether it will succeed or not.
No dubt that if it comes to that that the anime industry would be affected. Mainstream perverted shit brings cash that's for sure. But I don't think that it would be as dramatic as you say. Such large industry would adapt and continue existing. Fanservice would still be out there- it's just that it wouldn't have children in it. Moe would still exist. As you said the only thing that's left to see is whether or not the studios would find children pornography profitable enough (and no dubt that'll happen) to lobby the parts of the parlament to vote against.
A positive effect for the industry would be the separation of good from the bad. Those who would survive would mostly be the ones who are actually creative and produce quality. So contrary to the statement that such act would end creativity it would in reallity be a major boost to it.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Nikku on Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:33 am

I will not hurt myself!!

*Gets a splinter from the 2x4*

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Chulance on Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:01 am

NOO! Nikku no hurty yourselfer!

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Nikku on Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:44 am

Sylar wrote:NOO! Nikku no hurty yourselfer!

Nani? Nikku wo hajimamemashite doushita!?

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by lol1991 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:08 pm

@Ningen

But the problem is it ISN'T just child pornography. It is, and a "kinda" quote:

"Any character said or LOOKING as if they were 18 years of younger (looking includes say, for example, the setting being high school) who engage in any acts that can be considered sexual (this includes any sort of fanservice really) are to be censored"

Example!! Orihime. She's got the body of a 18 year old easily...any fanservice include hers is banned. All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored (heck, Rukia would be banned because she's a loli...who's 140 years old). Nel would be banned because she has an adult state but a kid state as well

@Chu,
you're an idiot. Censoring shit, for whatever the fucking reason, is just plain wrong. And comparing hentai to normal porn in ANY scenario or type is plain stupid. Hentai is just drawn. It harms no one, nobody is affected by it unless they read it. That's the point. That's where people fail to see the difference.


And also, if you think that FMA is devoid of fanservice you're just blind. Winry is fanservice, Hawkeye has been used as fanservice before. heck the Xing girl, Mai, also drooling over Ed (and latter Al) can be considered a sexual situation by more radical eyes. Sure, you don't see anything like this, but anybody else can. And, let me just had, Mai is a loli as well

Also, classics from the medium rely on fanservice. You're going to tell me that Dragon Ball is immoral? Because I think I've never heard you say anything along the lines before.
And, heck, Tenchi Muyo...Neon Genesis Evangelion, Gunbusters, Fooly Cooly, Berserk, and literally TONS of other great manga's have fanservice, a lot of them blatant and using what people would consider, according to what I quote in the start of my comment, an underage

And this is just arguing the subjectivity of this matter in regards to what's censored or not. Simply censoring it is wrong. It's art
I can come up with tons of western artworks that should be censored if we want to follow your ethics, and LOTS and LOTS of them are religious themed ones

So, before you you start preaching to me, you think nice and hard about what it means to censor another's art style, because if you still think that way, I'll just start listing a lot of stuff I'd censor using your ethics that you wont like

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by ningen on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:32 pm

lol1991 wrote:@Ningen

But the problem is it ISN'T just child pornography. It is, and a "kinda" quote:

"Any character said or LOOKING as if they were 18 years of younger (looking includes say, for example, the setting being high school) who engage in any acts that can be considered sexual (this includes any sort of fanservice really) are to be censored"

Example!! Orihime. She's got the body of a 18 year old easily...any fanservice include hers is banned. All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored (heck, Rukia would be banned because she's a loli...who's 140 years old). Nel would be banned because she has an adult state but a kid state as well
And nothing of value was lost.
Ok, jokes aside, it's like this- it doesn't matter if someone looks like an 18 year old, if you have sex with those persons you will still be held accountable for engaging in sexual activity with minors. So, it would be ok with me to ban all fanservice that includes Orihime. I don't understand "All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored" what did you mean by it, my english failed me, so if you can please further explain it. Why would Rukia be banned? And Nel? There aren't any grounds for such thing. You can do age shifts as long as they don't lead to child pornography.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by lol1991 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:41 pm

ningen wrote:
lol1991 wrote:@Ningen

But the problem is it ISN'T just child pornography. It is, and a "kinda" quote:

"Any character said or LOOKING as if they were 18 years of younger (looking includes say, for example, the setting being high school) who engage in any acts that can be considered sexual (this includes any sort of fanservice really) are to be censored"

Example!! Orihime. She's got the body of a 18 year old easily...any fanservice include hers is banned. All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored (heck, Rukia would be banned because she's a loli...who's 140 years old). Nel would be banned because she has an adult state but a kid state as well
And nothing of value was lost.
Ok, jokes aside, it's like this- it doesn't matter if someone looks like an 18 year old, if you have sex with those persons you will still be held accountable for engaging in sexual activity with minors. So, it would be ok with me to ban all fanservice that includes Orihime. I don't understand "All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored" what did you mean by it, my english failed me, so if you can please further explain it. Why would Rukia be banned? And Nel? There aren't any grounds for such thing. You can do age shifts as long as they don't lead to child pornography.

Okay so maybe Nel in adult form wont, but Rukia will sure will
She LOOKS like a loli. That's the problem. she LOOKS like a loli

And seriously, here's another thing that people FAIL to realize:
Jerking off to a drawing and taking action in reality are TWO DIFFERENT SEPARATE THINGS!! You cannot in any sort of fair way compare the two, they aren't comparable. People saying they want to fuck Orihime are just, at the end of the day, joking, even if they do feel sexually aroused by her (which, let me add, is what fanservice is supposed to do).
And obviously, these people would never say this in regards to any real high school girl (which, for that matter, would never look like Orihime in any way, shape or form)

And by color spreads I mean those 2 page covers that manga artists sometimes do, like that one with the Bleach girls (Matsumoto, Orhime, Rukia and Nel) in bathing suits or the recent valentines one with the guys holding paper cut out hearts

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by ningen on Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:13 pm

lol1991 wrote:
ningen wrote:
lol1991 wrote:@Ningen

But the problem is it ISN'T just child pornography. It is, and a "kinda" quote:

"Any character said or LOOKING as if they were 18 years of younger (looking includes say, for example, the setting being high school) who engage in any acts that can be considered sexual (this includes any sort of fanservice really) are to be censored"

Example!! Orihime. She's got the body of a 18 year old easily...any fanservice include hers is banned. All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored (heck, Rukia would be banned because she's a loli...who's 140 years old). Nel would be banned because she has an adult state but a kid state as well
And nothing of value was lost.
Ok, jokes aside, it's like this- it doesn't matter if someone looks like an 18 year old, if you have sex with those persons you will still be held accountable for engaging in sexual activity with minors. So, it would be ok with me to ban all fanservice that includes Orihime. I don't understand "All those color spreads of Bleach women will be censored" what did you mean by it, my english failed me, so if you can please further explain it. Why would Rukia be banned? And Nel? There aren't any grounds for such thing. You can do age shifts as long as they don't lead to child pornography.

Okay so maybe Nel in adult form wont, but Rukia will sure will
She LOOKS like a loli. That's the problem. she LOOKS like a loli

And seriously, here's another thing that people FAIL to realize:
Jerking off to a drawing and taking action in reality are TWO DIFFERENT SEPARATE THINGS!! You cannot in any sort of fair way compare the two, they aren't comparable. People saying they want to fuck Orihime are just, at the end of the day, joking, even if they do feel sexually aroused by her (which, let me add, is what fanservice is supposed to do).
And obviously, these people would never say this in regards to any real high school girl (which, for that matter, would never look like Orihime in any way, shape or form)

And by color spreads I mean those 2 page covers that manga artists sometimes do, like that one with the Bleach girls (Matsumoto, Orhime, Rukia and Nel) in bathing suits or the recent valentines one with the guys holding paper cut out hearts
What the hell? Define "looking like loli". Smile There isn't one thing about her that should cause her banning. I mean what- are you talking about her and Kon? Whenever he jumps at her she kicks him and nothing happens. They can't ban portraying children in bathing suits, you got that one also wrong.
Dude, I'm telling you- you think people didn't tried with that: "Jerking off to a drawing and taking action in reality are TWO DIFFERENT SEPARATE THINGS!"
And what do you think happened in the court? Law is a very tricky field, it has a very specific logic, which sometimes escapes an average guy. That's why one of the first things they told me when I began studying law is to get rid of all common sense. XD
Recently two guys were prosecuted for a virtual gang rape of a female member of the forum. Yes, she sued them. XD
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ya rly, that actually happened and is one of many similar examples of virtual crime
Believe me there are plenty of contra arguments that an average lawyer could throw in your direction. Not to mention that this is an issue that draws the attention of all the great law minds out there. For instance they could tell you that just because there aren't any real victims that doesn't mean that no crime is committed. Such material also has a very negative influence to the public because it can show certain actions as acceptable or even normal over and over, etc.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by lol1991 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:58 pm

But the people that can't tell the situations aren't acceptable and normal are mentally ill. It's a drawing (a very unrealistic one mind you) so it's obviously not meant to portray reality or acceptable conduct in any way.

And the part with bathing suits...yeah, it counts as fanservice and ban

And anyone that has a body of someone underdeveloped (which, lets face it, Rukia does) is considered a loli by this laws' views, which is why it's so fucked up.

And, I wont say that there aren't people that take it too far. But now we enter my future field I suppose. A person that can find release in fiction is less likely to do anything in real life. This isn't exactly a proven thing, but it makes sense if we take into consideration our biology and instincts

And I keep finding myself defending this as though the banning in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM is okay to begin with.

This is what I contest. You should not ban art, it's an attempt on freedom of expression.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by ningen on Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:48 pm

No, no and NO...gah...you started from the wrong premises and of course you'll come to the wrong conclusion. I read the first part and you got it all wrong. I'll explain to you with more details tomorrow, but basically- that's not how our brains work- both when it comes to propaganda, creating public opinion by media etc. and in the therms of how realistic something has to be to be perceived as reality.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Son Goku on Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:42 pm

lol1991 wrote:But the people that can't tell the situations aren't acceptable and normal are mentally ill. It's a drawing (a very unrealistic one mind you) so it's obviously not meant to portray reality or acceptable conduct in any way.

And the part with bathing suits...yeah, it counts as fanservice and ban

And anyone that has a body of someone underdeveloped (which, lets face it, Rukia does) is considered a loli by this laws' views, which is why it's so fucked up.

And, I wont say that there aren't people that take it too far. But now we enter my future field I suppose. A person that can find release in fiction is less likely to do anything in real life. This isn't exactly a proven thing, but it makes sense if we take into consideration our biology and instincts

And I keep finding myself defending this as though the banning in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM is okay to begin with.

This is what I contest. You should not ban art, it's an attempt on freedom of expression.

Isn't Rukia in her 50s?

Anyway, I don't have a problem with this bill getting passed as long as stories like Dragon Ball aren't condemned to being smut and taken off the shelves. I read those earlier stories when I was like 15 and I was LMAOing at those scenes like when Yamcha accidentally saw Bulma taking a shower and Roshi shooting blood out of his nose. I wonder if they'll just remove those scenes altogether if that bill gets passed.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by justinlynch3 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:13 pm

Even removing those scenes would suck though.

And Rukia's true age doesn't matter, she looks young, and that's what matters with what's going on.

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

Post by Tlaloc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Some time ago, I read of some feminist pressure group wanting for Japan to ban all erotic games:

(Warning, may have mature content).
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/05/11/feminists-force-ban-of-rapelay/

But now this seems serious considering many kown authors (damnit; my laptop is too slow and freezes at times) are against this. First I saw of this, was at kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/5493314/standing-up-to-proposed-virtual-child-porn-legislation

Really, all of this comes from stupid pressure groups outside Japan, who want to force Japan to be like "the rest of the world." They say this is to prevent crime in Japan, but crime in Japan has such a low rate comapred to other countries.

I say we need to make something like a petition or more to fight this, VegetaDTX should lead our group, and if we can, find legal people willing to help like lawyers and such; because honestly, what these pressure groups are doing is illegal! They want to modify the laws so they can fit them, while leave the rest of the people as outcasts!

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Re: So...as anime finally met it's match...

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