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Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

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Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:06 pm

Terrible at drawing proportions (couldn't fit it in the title). They can't seem to get face proportions correct and the results always end up looking ridiculous if you ask me. Just check this out to see what I'm talking about:

Goku, Gohan, and Cell, from Budokai 3 art:



Pretty accurate to the anime, right? Now here's the same characters doing the similar poses on Kai's official website:

http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_kai/

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:13 pm

They look pretty good to me. Only one looking somewhat off was Goku, the rest, I see no problem.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Vampire Knight on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:28 pm

I totally agree, i was watching nick and they were doing an interview and the guy was like the animation is beautiful i was like no...
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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:09 pm

Gohan's hair lookes way too narrow or something and his bang is way too big.

Goku's face is really long as is his neck.

Cell's head is gigantic. It's about 2x or 3x the size it should be. His jaw area is also way too long.

The rest look fine.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:18 pm

Goku I noticed on the spot was off.

Gohan's bang could possibly be due to the angle he's shown on. Cell, ya I see what you mean, his head is bigger.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Nikku on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:13 am

They do look quite off!

But nowhere near as off as how the GT animators drew Cell in DBGT! Just watch an episode of GT with Cell in it and you're guarranted to find a few shots of him looking extremely weird.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Jessica Raine on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:57 am

NECK.
GOKU'S NECK.
affraid

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:24 am

OOOOOH HERE I AAAAM!! Very Happy darn it! darn it! I am such a big fan of this kind of topics Very Happy always glad to discuss about it
lol!

Yes, its not only you Son Goku...I completely agree, that particular KAI picture is too non-proportional and off the original DBZ style.

However out of those 3 Budokai pictures only Gohan is the one who IMO has too big head and too short hair(for SSJ2 at least) but still Goku and Cell are perfect.
However in the Kai image, only Androids look ok, and Trunks and Vegeta look barely decent.
Goku Gohan and Cell are really way off.

P.S.
Glad to see some of you back Smile hope you all are doing fine!

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:29 pm

VEGETA_DTX wrote:OOOOOH HERE I AAAAM!! Very Happy darn it! darn it! I am such a big fan of this kind of topics Very Happy always glad to discuss about it
lol!

Yes, its not only you Son Goku...I completely agree, that particular KAI picture is too non-proportional and off the original DBZ style.

However out of those 3 Budokai pictures only Gohan is the one who IMO has too big head and too short hair(for SSJ2 at least) but still Goku and Cell are perfect.
However in the Kai image, only Androids look ok, and Trunks and Vegeta look barely decent.
Goku Gohan and Cell are really way off.

P.S.
Glad to see some of you back Smile hope you all are doing fine!

That's the only thing that makes me have reservations about them reanimating the series. They've been testing the waters with that 'Son Goku and his Friends Return' special and now the 'Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans' remake. Those two look decent, but the character models are not up to par with the originals. Especially their build. I notice some of the shortest characters are totally shriveled compared to the original models from the manga. It makes me worry that they'd screw up the look of certain characters at certain stages in the series. I've noticed that all 'refreshed' drawings of Goku from when he was about 23 years old during the Saiyan Saga always have him drawn how he looked when he was in his mid-late 30s around the Cell/Buu time frame.

Heck, even Toriyama did a pretty subpar refreshed Goku character design for GT by making him look like adult Goku (mid-late) with no chin.

As for the Budokai 3 Gohan drawing; surprisingly, that was the best clear image of Gohan I could find that was rather close to the anime. The next best thing I could find is this:



Jessica Raine wrote:NECK.
GOKU'S NECK.
affraid

Laughing I noticed that as well. It looks like a giraffe neck.

Nikku wrote:They do look quite off!

But nowhere near as off as how the GT animators drew Cell in DBGT! Just watch an episode of GT with Cell in it and you're guarranted to find a few shots of him looking extremely weird.

Oh man, don't even get me started on that! Those were the worst character designs I've seen for that show. Cell's eyes were slanted the wrong way so he looked ridiculous. The same applies to Freeza who also had a head that remindes me of the Red Queen's head in that Tim Burton 'Alice in Wonderland' movie.




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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:11 pm

I agree, GT did awful with Cell and Frieza.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Nikku on Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:25 pm

GAH!!! THERE THEY ARE!!!

Seriously, I knew I wasn't the only one who was urked by that. They looked HORRIBLE in GT. My first Frieza and Cell looked better than that!

Here we go, just watch this video and tell me they don't look horrible!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/187596/dragonball_gt/

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:54 pm

That whole fight was a freaking joke.

Toriyama should have never let those writers loose on the franchise. Notice how fast the franchise failed after he left them in charge.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:41 pm

Hell GT is so bad many don't even want to call it part of the series.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Vampire Knight on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:15 pm

i agreee
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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:43 pm

That's because it isn't. Unlike American comic books, changing writers and artists to continue stories doesn't work with something like Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball has a definitive beginning, middle, and end. Then everything changes and takes a nosedive in quality when the writer and artist quit, leaving it to a group of subpar imitators.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by VEGETA_DTX on Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:02 am

Son Goku wrote:
VEGETA_DTX wrote:OOOOOH HERE I AAAAM!! Very Happy darn it! darn it! I am such a big fan of this kind of topics Very Happy always glad to discuss about it
lol!

Yes, its not only you Son Goku...I completely agree, that particular KAI picture is too non-proportional and off the original DBZ style.

However out of those 3 Budokai pictures only Gohan is the one who IMO has too big head and too short hair(for SSJ2 at least) but still Goku and Cell are perfect.
However in the Kai image, only Androids look ok, and Trunks and Vegeta look barely decent.
Goku Gohan and Cell are really way off.

P.S.
Glad to see some of you back Smile hope you all are doing fine!

That's the only thing that makes me have reservations about them reanimating the series. They've been testing the waters with that 'Son Goku and his Friends Return' special and now the 'Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans' remake. Those two look decent, but the character models are not up to par with the originals. Especially their build. I notice some of the shortest characters are totally shriveled compared to the original models from the manga. It makes me worry that they'd screw up the look of certain characters at certain stages in the series. I've noticed that all 'refreshed' drawings of Goku from when he was about 23 years old during the Saiyan Saga always have him drawn how he looked when he was in his mid-late 30s around the Cell/Buu time frame.

Heck, even Toriyama did a pretty subpar refreshed Goku character design for GT by making him look like adult Goku (mid-late) with no chin.

As for the Budokai 3 Gohan drawing; surprisingly, that was the best clear image of Gohan I could find that was rather close to the anime. The next best thing I could find is this:



Jessica Raine wrote:NECK.
GOKU'S NECK.
affraid

Laughing I noticed that as well. It looks like a giraffe neck.

Nikku wrote:They do look quite off!

But nowhere near as off as how the GT animators drew Cell in DBGT! Just watch an episode of GT with Cell in it and you're guarranted to find a few shots of him looking extremely weird.

Oh man, don't even get me started on that! Those were the worst character designs I've seen for that show. Cell's eyes were slanted the wrong way so he looked ridiculous. The same applies to Freeza who also had a head that remindes me of the Red Queen's head in that Tim Burton 'Alice in Wonderland' movie.




Sure, not every screenshot or scene can be ideal, as in any other anime, but GT is really way off DBZ's style entirely(ok lets say SSJ4's look good proportion wise and stylistically but the design idea is not nearly as awesome as SSJ1/SSJ2/SSJ3 IMO), you've put a great few examples for GT...I mean, look at it, that almost ruined DBZ's style(artistically). What the hell happened with sharp edged eyes and faces? Huge heads and small shoulders!? thats a TABOO in DBZ Very Happy even Freeza who is meant to have huge head, has a BARELY bigger head than a single shoulder of his in DBZ when he is full power Smile

As for Gohan SSJ2 I found some nice screenshots of him as SSJ2(from Bojack Unbound) in my BSplayer folder Very Happy



I know I had some awesome Gohan SSJ2 screens from Cell Saga but I can't find them now Sad

EDIT:
Just found some screenshots and wanted to compare DBZ and DBGT:
GT Vegeta AKA "not-Vegeta"


VS
DBZ Vegeta AKA PURE AWESOMNESS Very Happy




^Now what the heck is that? :S what a drastic difference don't you agree?
I don't know about you but those are the two completely different characters for me.
DBZ = PURE AWESOMNESS

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Jessica Raine on Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:48 am

hahaha vegeta looks like a creeper with that mustache! Oh man I forgot about that

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Vampire Knight on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:33 am

He looks like a bull fighter
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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Jessica Raine on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:40 am

hahaha yeah he does!

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Nikku on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:55 am

Vegeta's look in GT was horrible. The tiny MOO-STAHSH looked dorky and the flat top hair style was stupid. His later redesign was better, but nowhere near as good as the Z Vegeta!

And the character designs of GT... I didn't like them;

- Gohan got glasses, a suit and weird looking eyes
- Vegeta, nuff said
- Goten looked nothing like he did in Z
- Chi-Chi was probably the worst design I've ever seen, she looked WAY too old
- Videl shared the same exact hairstyle as Yamcha...
- Trunks' hair was too purple
- Grey hair and big grey moustashe for Krillin
- Bulla; I liked her face and hair design, but the outfit gave off a slutty vibe...

By the way, about the MOO-STAHSH bit;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L7t_BqUVT4

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:16 pm

There's no doubt about it, GT wasn't nearly as good as Z.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:22 pm

Vegeta became a total joke. I couldn't take him serious after that hideous eraser haircut, even when he got the Gohan clone haircut.

Why in the world would Toriyama design Trunks and Goten to look like they were still 16? They're in their late 20s by this point, yet Trunks hadn't grown an inch since the last episode of Z, and Goten looked shriveled with the stupidest haircut I've seen in any anime. It looked some one ran a lawn mower over his head.

Krillin looked like an old man. Yet Yamcha looked like he was just hitting 40 and Tenshinhan looked identical. Both were years older than Krillin.

Heck, even 18 aged and she's a freaking cyborg!

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:38 pm

18 aging was just plain stupid, she like 17, she CAN'T age.

Goten should of looked just like a early Z Goku in my opinion. But... the hair... WTF is with the hair? And Trunks... Trucks should have turned out exactly like his future self in Z, he's Vegeta's friggin son. Chi Chi and Goku might allow Goten to slack off, but we all know Vegeta wouldn't allow the same for Trunks. Trunks should of been awesome.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by Son Goku on Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:14 pm

Yeah, 18 completely went against her character. Didn't she get mad about a couple strands of her hair getting chopped off by Trunks' sword? As in it doesn't grow back!?

Funny enough, in GT, 17 hadn't aged a day since he was introduced in the Android/Cyborg/Cell saga.

Trunks attitude-wise, I wouldn't mind him being different but he was way too goofy. As for his looks, it shouldn't make a difference, your genetic code determines how tall you'll be unless you're totally malnourished, which obviously wouldn't be the case for a rich kid. He was lame the whole series.

Come on, who turns into an SSJ and still struggles lifting a bunch of bricks?

GT's crappy writing reminds me of the Pokemon anime...you know, the one where they get super strong pocket monsters, then give them away for no reason other than to introduce the 'new' monsters from the next game, or base an entire saga around a mystery Pokeball, then also give that away to a random 'character of the day' because the writers thought they'd make more money off a movie based around the super mystery Pokemon inside the ball (Celebi) and hope that viewers would forget about the super mystery GS ball in the show. Yeah, that show.

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Re: Is it just me or are the Kai artists terrible?

Post by justinlynch3 on Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:51 pm

What's most annoying about GT is how insanely powerful Goku is, as a kid no less. I mean Goku being the strongest in the series, I have no problem with, but come the fuck on. He fought fucking Cell in base form... a fucking SSJ2 tier Villain... in base base form??? AS A CHILD!!!???

It's like Toriyama said "lets take the strongest guy in the series, and make him way fucking stronger. But leave everyone else the same.

I desperately wanted SSJ3 Vegeta in GT, it never came. At least they gave him fury SSJ4... and even then he had help to do it.

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