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Still on the anime bill

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Still on the anime bill

Post by lol1991 on Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:10 am

>>Recently, a bill was announced that would limit/censor most anime. Ishihara, the man behind the bill, has recently stated that he's not sure what to do about it. Do you know why? Because Bandai can easily crush him and push him out of the way if he tried to interfere with their business. Even worse, there's a company that's behind Bandai that's far stronger than any company most people here have heard complaints about. A racist politician tarnishing the image of Japan and attempting to limit their profits doesn't sit well with them either.

>What company is this?

>>Dentsu. Look up your favorite anime, chances are they'll be listed as one of the main sponsors or advertisers for the series.

>>Wikipedia says they're just an advertising company, albeit a big one. What could they do?

>>If Sunrise answers to Bandai's demands, then Bandai answers to Dentsu. So does every other studio in the nation, and outside of the nation. They're simply big, strong, and have some major international influences in many different sectors. Going against Dentsu isn't something anyone could survive.

>>Speaking of which, Kadokawa and a couple of other companies have announced that they're going to hold their own big anime event in Chiba. ON THE EXACT SAME DAYS AS THE TAF. Owned.

>>Oh but IIRC Bandai and Dentsu are officially still participating in the TAF. That's probably because they think nobody'd dare to use the bill on them, though.

>>Oh god please tell me you're not joking.

>>Anime Contents Expo, 26-27 March 2011 Makuhari Messe. Companies confirmed so far: Aniplex, Animate, Kadokawa, King Record, Geneon, Frontier Works, Marvelous, Media Factory http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/shop/20101228_info.html

>>The AJA has also said a few weeks ago that it's now pretty much impossible to hold the TAF. http://gigazine.net/news/20101221_aja_taf2011/

>>And to top it all of the ministry of economy is still going with the whole Cool Japan "let's use anime to conquer the world" thing and Ishihara is pretty much actively getting in their way. http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atmoney/news/20101222-OYT1T00968.htm

>>Wait, what?

>>http://www.nhk.or.jp/cooljapan/en/index.html It's mostly a tourism thing they've been doing.

>>Also economical. Also, I've been to conferences where they were talking about it, they're saying that they want to use the power of "soft contents" to make Japanese culture and products more accepted worldwide. tl;dr they want to brainwash everyone with anime and then BAM CULTURAL VICTORY.

>>Goggle Dentsu
>>Realize they have a branch on the shitty third world country where I live
>My, you weren't joking.

>>Did someone say Ishihara? Here, have some cosplay from Comic Market. (this thread's OP pic)


Does everyone hear that sound? Bitch got served!

Fuck yes. If they go ahead and just plain boycott TAF, Ishihara will sure as HELL reconsider this bill.

Another victory for the avarice of man

EDIT:

And one final post to make sure you understand exactly what Dentsu can do to Ishihara if he keeps pushing this further:

>>Very few federal level politicians in any country are without some sort of business interests, and the superconglomerates can easily control those business interests, as well as lobbying groups, lawyers, and other business sectors or dig up an awful lot of dirt on someone with their LUDICROUS PILES OF CASH, and the major Japanese corporations make American conglomerates look like mom'n'pop shops. If a single grumpy corporation decided to play dirty, it could bankrupt a politician, ruin his political career with a scandal, or flat out stop the Japanese economy. Entirely

>>To add to that, Corporations think entirely logically. So thy would be willing to spend as much money as what their predicted losses would be if they did nothing.

>>This, if they think ignoring the new bill would cost them 10 million dollars, they will be willing to SPEND 10 million dollars to get rid of the bill. The greater the potential losses, the more money they would spend to stop it. And this new bill would potentially be VERY expensive indeed... so expensive, that it is worth busting metaphorical heads to prevent it.

>>And don't forget, they are an ADVERTISING company.

>>You think the American presidential election attack ads are mean? Wait until you see an entire advertising company go to war. Controlling public opinion is their dayjob.


Again...fuck yeah capitalism actually being useful for once

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:53 am

Lulz, well everything is said right there. Capitalism sucks. When it comes to me almost everything that's said there I knew already. Unfortunately we live in such fucked up world where economic interests dictate everything and the will of the people is put to the side. Politicians are essentially scumbags, that's why I laugh when I see the hype that comes with every election. People crying over Obama getting elected and shit, lololololol...
But there is one thing about politicians, they, at least in theory, should represent the people. In this case Ishihara represents one legitimate interest, the one that is aware that something needs to be changed, that things need to be regulated like in every big industry. A portion of the Japanese voters support such actions and it would seem that it's a rather large percent. And on the other hand there are big companies that care only about their profits and that smaller percent of people that either irrationally hate the changes or they just care about their consumer needs or both. But here is the thing- if you want to survive in politics you can't break promises to your voters that easily and that often. Ishihara knows that too. It's like if he would be a politician who decided to support liberal market and that kind of economy (because he saw that it would bring him a lot of support), such politician would be very careful when it comes to dealing with lobby groups that for example want to limit the import of foreign cars.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by lol1991 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:00 am

Problem is, nobody is with Ishihara. I don't think you get this. The only people that support him are nationalists who want the "glorious japan" back and are trying to basically control a medium because they think that will help them influence the younger generation.
Except they're wrong. They leave out way worse shit like teenage idols, light novels (seriously, light novels are ten times fanservice heavier than any anime).

And most importantly, you see what the artists, and the animators and directors think of them. GAINAX (the guys behind Evangelion, Gunbuster, TTGL) are against this. The guys at Madhouse (Black Lagoon, Hellsing) are against this. Sunrise (Cowboy Bebop, nuff said) are against this, BONES (Darker than Black, Heroman, Eureka 7) are against this.
And to speak of individual animators, I only need to say Miyazaki, THE MIYAZAKI, is against this.
And even mangaka. All of the big 3 artists (Kubo, Kishi and Oda), the guy behind Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Hirohiko, Araki, Kentaru Miura (Berserk artist), Kouta Hirano (Hellsing).
Need I go on here? I've already named 3 of the biggest names in the industry with 3 of the most respected pieces of manga in both Japan AND the West.

So really, Ishihara is fighting against both the target public of most of the industry (otaku), most of the general public (Japan likes their anime and manga), the companies and artists, and now even against the big time media. That is the reason I quoted the TAF not happening is to show exactly what this is doing to the Tokyo economy. Anime is a bigger thing than we can imagine.

And finally, let me say this. I hate capitalism with a passion. But here, I'm choosing the lesser of two evils. It's between a guy that wants to censor art, and the guys that want to control people THROUGH the art.

If it comes back to bite me...well I know who I'm getting in bed with

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:15 am

I bet he has a solid support. If that's not true this bill would never see the light of the day, because that's the way with laws and politicians.
Of course that artists, and other industry representatives are against something that brings changes to their business.
Child porn is not art. This guy also wants to control people through media, that's what censorship is all about...dooh. So you basically only choose the control that you find better for you (disguising and justifying your selfish needs behind phrases like "art censorship"), and sorry but that's highly subjective.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by lol1991 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:23 am

Thing is, nobody is censoring child porn...If you mean LOLI HENTAI, that is already heavily regulated, only allowed for people of age (I think it's 18 in Japan, not sure).
Also, I had this discussion with you previously, and I refuse to have it again, but lets make it clear ONE MORE TIME
Hentai =/= Real porn. Drawn erotica will never be the same because there are no real people involved except the artist making it.

Back on topic, what is at issue here is normal, published manga and TV anime. These are the ones being censored.

I'm seriously growing tired of arguing this. You know obviously don't know anything about the anime industry, otherwise you'd realize just how bad this could have really gotten without Ishihara being told to simmer down by Dentsu.
And yes, I'm choosing one of two evils. I made that clear in my post, I see no reason for you to tell me that again.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Chulance on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:34 pm

I honestly suppor the bill! The World is falling to pieces! Cenorship can change the next generation!

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by lol1991 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:49 pm

Chu. I can name things that could get any anime you have ever watched censored if people behind this had half a mind to
FMA, TTGL, you name it.

That is the danger of this, and also the possibility for nothing at all to happen. It is all SUBJECTIVE.
But me believing that everything will be alright entails me trusting the people behind this, which I don't

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:54 am

lol1991 wrote:Thing is, nobody is censoring child porn...If you mean LOLI HENTAI, that is already heavily regulated, only allowed for people of age (I think it's 18 in Japan, not sure).
Also, I had this discussion with you previously, and I refuse to have it again, but lets make it clear ONE MORE TIME
Hentai =/= Real porn. Drawn erotica will never be the same because there are no real people involved except the artist making it.

Back on topic, what is at issue here is normal, published manga and TV anime. These are the ones being censored.

I'm seriously growing tired of arguing this. You know obviously don't know anything about the anime industry, otherwise you'd realize just how bad this could have really gotten without Ishihara being told to simmer down by Dentsu.
And yes, I'm choosing one of two evils. I made that clear in my post, I see no reason for you to tell me that again.
Of course that nobody is censoring animated child porn in Japan, but that is one of the things that this bill would supposedly do. Lol, 18 years old...I'm talking here about a complete ban of materials that glorify rape or in any way show children in an intercourse or similar sexual acts.
Yes we already had a discussion and I'm telling you again: Hentai =/= Real porn- you're missing the point. Drawn erotica is not the same but it's similar in it's consequences and influence and thus it should be regulated in a similar way, and not just drawn erotica- no art form should get different treatment. Real people or not, that's essentially irrelevant.
You know even less about it if you think something like the industry will die. That's what weebo kids repeat in the corners of their rooms clutching their knees. XD "My animu, my animu!" XD
No you didn't say it like that, you twisted the words and took out censorship from the ways of controlling people through art.
In this case censorship would be a positive change.
Fu-yeah this is art:

Yeah, ppl watch it because of the plot, great creativity and artistic contribution...lol.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Chulance on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:10 am

I LOVE CENORSHIP!

When Isay that my heart broke. Such Evil is so bad in the Lord's eyes! GOD hates this! Heck any good person should hate this! Child pornograpghy drawn animated whatever should be illegal!

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:00 am

Please don't bring some god of yours into this...

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Chulance on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:48 am

Ah I'm bringing in THE God, and my own personal morals. This is horrible, did you see that images.

Children younger then 18 should not be in sexual acts animated or non animated, it's the same, and it's evil, and anyone addicted to that..is wow. I pray for them, I worry, I believe anime should be pure. Dragon Ball for example could even be semi censored, but Toriyama matured, and stopped with 'fanservice'.

Who wants to see animated bitches half naked anyway? The real dela is far better.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:59 am

"Arguments" based on religion are not allowed here, so once again avoid such comments.
I agree with you when it comes to animated child porn.
If people like drawn erotica (as long it is according to the law), or erotica in any other art form that's their thing. If you like 3D, the real deal or whatever you call it that's your thing. People have different preferences, deal with it.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Chulance on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:21 am

As I said, I still will always prefeal it real. But If people wanna see half naked anime women, at LEAST let them be 18 or above, not high school girls going on.

Not pointing fingres at any anime. But some anime such as HOTD get so caught up in fanservice there's barely any legitimate plot. Also I'm not telling people what there preferences SHOULD be, I'm just seeing the age limit what THAT should be for animated erotica.

Anyway, seems like where on the same side. I want to see what 'Lol' says. lol I luv debating.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:57 am

I agree about the age limit.
I was mentioning preferences because you wrote "who wants to see this and that?" and how you like real women better. Such statements are irrelevant to this discussion.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Chulance on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:58 am

Oh, well meh they are pretty irrelevant lol.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Jessica Raine on Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:47 pm

I also strongly oppose Child porn (of course) and I don't like fanservice, erotic stuff and whatnot, but I think this bill sounds like it could be overkill. It's hard to explain, but I just feel like if this bill is passed, a lot of unnecessary and not-that-bad stuff might get censored, Ya know?
What's crossing the line? Is it just explicit sex with characters under 18? Or is it extreme to the point that an innocent show like K-On would be banned/censored just for having school girls that occasionally wear maid-outfits during concerts or bathing suits at the beach?

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:51 am

But wait, wait, wait...you have to understand that those are all rumors and that there is a very high possibility that everything is just overhyped. Have you read the bill? None of us did, but somehow I see a lot of people talking about it like they know every word in it. If the bill bans maid uniforms and bathing suits in every context when it comes to underaged girls then I will be the first one to say that it's idiotic. I think that we should all just wait until we see the translated version of the bill. Also the translation should come from a credible source.
Just don't believe everything you hear from places like sankaku complex and such...

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Jessica Raine on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:45 pm

yeah, I've been a bit confused because people are really vague with the bill. Everyone's like "it bans inappropriate stuff and that's bad!" without much detail to WHAT content is affected. Everyone's just going on about how horrible;e the guy who made the bill is, how it limits creativity, ect ect. I can't take a side until somebody can tell me EXACTLY what the bill wants to do.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:28 pm

Jessica Raine wrote:yeah, I've been a bit confused because people are really vague with the bill. Everyone's like "it bans inappropriate stuff and that's bad!" without much detail to WHAT content is affected. Everyone's just going on about how horrible;e the guy who made the bill is, how it limits creativity, ect ect. I can't take a side until somebody can tell me EXACTLY what the bill wants to do.
Exactly, luckily you know how to use your brain.
Now just let me explain what some of the other people on the web did:
Spoiler:
- First wave: An article appears on Sankaku Complex or a similar site. The article says something about some horrible bill that will change some things in the manga/anime industry. The article was written by a guy/girl who hasn't actually read the bill. The article doesn't say a lot of concrete stuff. But that's not so important, what's important is that it's talking about my beloved anime. So they came across a quotation where some artist is shocked by his publisher who didn't allowed school uniforms...wait, WAIT, ZOMGWTF THIS BILL BANS SCHOOL UNIFORMS IN EVERY POSSIBLE CONTEXT!!!!!!!!111111!!!!!!!!, is the conclusion of the majority of idiots. And right about there that group suffers a panic attack, they start to sweat, breath heavily and end up in a corner of the room shaking in fetal position. And they repeat to themselves:"My animu, my animu...the industry will end, the industry will end...precioussssss!"
- Second wave: After they manage to recover they start to post a bunch of angry, senseless comments filled with panic.
- Third wave: Those are the people who for some reason didn't have an access to the internetz during the times those news and replies were posted. Here is what they encounter:"Fuck you Ishihara you fag, FAAAAAAAG!...Dragon Ball could be banned! I smell a conspiracy in all of this! (guess who I quoted there)...School uniforms BANNED...industry dead...armageddon...God hates...turkey sammich...precioussss..."

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Jessica Raine on Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:57 pm

to be honest, if the bill turns out to be what I fear it could be, I would probably freak out really bad. But I'm saving my rage-fit for later, if I even need it X D

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by ningen on Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:39 am

Well hey, if the bill turns out to be rather idiotic I will be shouting FFFFUUUUUUU~ around my room too.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Chulance on Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:52 am

Hmm, I guess I'd be upset, but I wouldn't react anything like that.

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Jessica Raine on Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:47 pm

Nobody takes away my moe, nobody! Go ahead, kill the hentai and ecchi, but leave moe alone! I will defend moe to the very end!
lulz.

*eagerly awaiting more information*

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Tlaloc on Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:23 pm

OK, first of all; I really didn't felt ready to return to the forum. But when I saw about the bill, and noticing that none was speaking of it here; I decided to lose the fear and post about it here. When I posted it; I channeled what my friend from Japan said (who is an artist and knows better about this law), and basically gave a rage bash in it.

ningen wrote:Damn my wall of text crashed, blah I can't write it all again so I'll just say:
I don't see what your relations to other members have to do with anything.

Well like I said, I didn't knew if to post or not; because of my fights with VegetaDTX and others; I was under the impression that you guys may not want to read what I was going to post; and I said that I knew you guys may still be angry at me but to please read as it was important.

For it, I apologize. I had a chat with VegetaDTX in which he told me that I should speak of other things, and I felt bad for what some users said in a thread I made. Maybe some saw that thread as a joke, and I felt bad from what I believed were flames. I don't remember quite well who were those users, as they used similar avatars; so I decided to let go the grudge. But my guess ningen is one of those who which I believed flammed me. If so, I apologize ningen for suspecting.

ningen wrote:You haven't wrote one solid argument in your wall of text against this bill.

ningen wrote:I also censored some of the insults.

What in your standards is a solid argument? Please tell me so I can know better. Also on the insults, well sorry but I couldn't think a better insult for someone like that japanese politician (we all know from that confirmed study by Henry E. Adams, Ph.D., Lester W. Wright, Jr., Ph.D. and Bethany A. Lohr, that anyone who is homophobic is a homosexual in denial) who made bill 156. So are you homosexual ningen or know someone who is and felt offended by it? If so; I apologize for using that word.

But the man is a hypocrite. With bill 156 he wants to ban homoerotic content from everything minus books; when he has writen such stories and it is rumored he has "boy toys." And I am not sure if it was homoerotic or not, but he was well known for doing a story where someone raped another person between a paper door. And that was very controversial when it appeared, yet it was tame to what we see in mainstream anime and he wants it censored. (Canīt speak for hentai much less for guro or such works made by fans).

Look, let me quote what my friend for Japan said:

Censored for your protection

But I guess that for all that you will say:

ningen wrote:Lol, what a bunch of gibberish.

So again, I apologize for all the wrong doings I did.

But still... ningen; I see now you are also flaming other users, like Chulance for beliving in Jesuschrist. You are becoming the new Sephirtoh/DeRa, so please chill dude!

Just one question, what if VegetaDTX had been the one to post about this and asked to protest it like the DBLAM?

Good bye and good day.


Last edited by Tlaloc on Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Still on the anime bill

Post by Yagami on Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:09 pm

Tlaloc wrote:
ningen wrote:I also censored some of the insults.
So are you homosexual ningen or know someone who is and felt offended by it? If so; I apologize for using that word.

There is no "if so", you should apologize. Period. You don't need to know someone or be in a certain group to protect people's rights and defend them from hate and insult.
And please stop with the melodrama, you are not that special. If people want to read your posts they will, if not, they won't, don't make a big deal out if it.
Oh and since you wanna know let me tell you, a sound argument stipulates that the conclusion you come to is a logical consequence of the premises used. In this case, you don't even have a premise SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BILL SAYS. At this point it's all speculation on your side. There, glad to help.
I'll leave the rest to ningen as I'm going to sleep.
You have a good day too.


Last edited by Tlaloc on Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:29 pm; edited 2 times in total

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