Dragonball Z discussion

Discuss anything about the Dragonball Franchise. I'll start who thinks the humans should have not been so useless in the Android/Cell Arc? Tien was one of my favorite characters and so was Krillin. They weer my favorite humans Krillin lasted a while but not Tien he fought but always lost in a few blows. The last time he actually did something was when he fought SSJ1 Maria (Future) Trunks in the ninth movie.

Because... Humans are weak? :S

Krillin gained the power of SSJ Goku during his fight with Freeza and maybe a bit higher by the end of the series? The humans who trained shuold have been able to keep up and even the half saiyans only reached SSJ1 and Goahn did reach SSJ2 but his SSJ2 form was severly weakened by the time he was in high-school

Yes i use to think about this a lot when I watched the series, i wish humans had kept on getting stronger, specially krillin and Ten Shin Han (he is awsome).

Specially I hate that even Piccolo is left behind in the end, as he is probably my favourite character after Goku

But I guess is the advantage of being a Sayan, once you reach your limit, by transforming into a next stage of super sayan trascending such limits.

Nameks can also trascend their own limits by fusing with other Nameks, I guess

But humans can only go so far, as they have no transformations, and cannot fuse naturally.

It would have been cool to see the human equivalent of a transformation, specially in Ten Shin Han, who is not a compleatly normal human for me, actually we can Imagine that his current state with a third eye, with the ability to grow extra arms and even multiply himself is due to an enlightened state, akin to a transformation, maybe once he was a normal human who trascended his limitations.

But I guess this will remain in the realm of fan fictions

Hey I have heard that about Krillin being as strong as Super Sayan 1 Goku at Friezza´s saga, but I never found an official source to back it up, where did you get it from?

Also is Piccolo at the end of the story about the same level as perfect Cell (maybe a bit stronger), or am I imagining this?

As much as I would like to see them more useful I must admit that it was just the matter of time when we would see the end of it. The opponents were stronger and stronger and we saw a logical end to it. I know that it's hard for some fans, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Let me explain Krillin was the power of an SSJ and Once Akira said that if Piccolo also fused with King Piccolo he would get a boost to battle and be stronger than a weak form of Buu. Piccolo didn't know this and it would have been good. Krillin could have faced some minor villians to reveal his Namek SJ level. I understand Saiyans always grow stronger than humans

Wait, when was Krillin ever as strong as a SSJ?

For me the humans never should have a power level superior to 1000!! Maybe only Ten Shin Han... he is the king of the mutants..lol (2000 power level for him.. )
Perhaps that is the only thing i do not like in DB... some powerlevels are ridiculous, like for example Kuririn with the same power as an ssj??? SSJ should be a legendary form.. the same form that killed the most powerfull being in the universe - freeza (freeza was a genetic freak like captain Genyu said).
And the sayans should be the race with the most potential fight power (but putting kuririn with the strengh as an ssj just kills that)!!

The androids and Buu were created by scientists and wizards (not naturally born, and they are not part of any specific race)... so for me its ok they been strong than an SSJ!! But humans?? common... master roshi (like mutaito he was the strongest human of his time) only had what?? 200 of power level (in his best form)??

I highly doubt that Krillin even by the Buu saga was anywhere near SSJ Namake saga Goku.

Perhaps he got as strong as Goku using the Kaio Ken, but I've never considered him any stronger then then that.

Krillin and Tien where as strong as maybe Goku with Kaio Ken, but not stronger. The reached about 1 million in PL, but SSJ Goku in the Freeza saga was about 20 million it I'm not mistaken.

My main problem with DB was indeed the humans uselessness after the Saiyans. I think that it's because the PL became to overkill after a while, but they still should have kept up.

^I agree with you and some other ppl here. Kuririn's strength can't be compared to those of a SSJ. Unfortunately, we can only imagine the strength of Piccolo after the fusions.

lol1991 wrote:Krillin and Tien where as strong as maybe Goku with Kaio Ken, but noe stronger. The reached about 1 million in PL, but SSJ Goku in the Freeza saga was about 20 million it I'm not mistaken.

My main problem with DB was indeed the humans uselessness after the Saiyans. I think that it became the PL became to overkill after a while, but they still should have kept up.

Wasn't Frieza at 100% 12 000 000 and Goku was 15 000 000 or something like that.

Time for me to join in at the end of DBZ Krillin was the strongest human with a PL of 15,000,000 giving him enough power to fight Freeza but remeber he got stronger with his cyborg parts so Krillin would not be able to beat him. Piccolo would have been able to combat Buu but not beat his stronger forms like Buuhan.buutenks ect. Maybe Fat buu and last against Superbuu.''

Frieza was a changeling Ginyu and the Ginyu Force were mutants. Tien managed hold off Cell after he abosrbed 17 and Nappa had a pl of 4000 Tien was much stronger than Nappa. Buu is a Majin in DBO which is cannon to the series it states his race is Majin although he proboably started the race by creating a female version of him.

Anime Goku wrote:Time for me to join in at the end of DBZ Krillin was the strongest human with a PL of 15,000,000 giving him enough power to fight Freeza but remeber he got stronger with his cyborg parts so Krillin would not be able to beat him. Piccolo would have been able to combat Buu but not beat his stronger forms like Buuhan.buutenks ect. Maybe Fat buu and last against Superbuu.''

Frieza was a changeling Ginyu and the Ginyu Force were mutants. Tien managed hold off Cell after he abosrbed 17 and Nappa had a pl of 4000 Tien was much stronger than Nappa. Buu is a Majin in DBO which is cannon to the series it states his race is Majin although he proboably started the race by creating a female version of him.

To start with, no PL was shown after that one reading of Trunks PL just before he powered up when confronting mecha Freeza. Now with that in mind, you can't state the power levels, however you can give estimates. But even then, to say that Krillin had a PL of 15 million is just wrong. No human could reach that PL. He had 1 million at the most. And he wasn't the strongest. Tien was. He was the one human that continued with serious training. Krillin just had the occasional sparing match with 18.

Piccolo would get his ass handed to him by any if the Buu's. His PL was most likely around 30-35 million, based on the fact that:

He was stonger than a SSJ
But yet was weaker than imperfect Cell at full power.
He most likely got strong enough to last against semi perfect Cell

The Buu part was utter nonsense. Buu was a magical being created by the wizard Bibidi. There was no other being like him, expect for the brief moment where both Kid Buu and Fat Buu existed at the same time

Well that was the pl he should be around since he was stated to be SSJ Goku during namek saga level. It was stated Goku's power when he first became SSJ was 15,000,000 and Krillin reached that level. Freeza in his first form had 1,000,000 and Krillin lasted against him. Krillin's PL is 15,0000,0000 don't under estimate his power.

Tien was not the strongest human, Krillin became more powerful and had more power-up's such as his potiential unlocked by Guru and keeping up in the Namek/Ginyu/ and part of the Freeza Saga. He fought in the Android arc and took blows from Cell Jr. By the Buu saga he was a full time support character who still fought Superbuu.

Akira said Krillin was the strongest HUMAN. Majuub a human/majin fusion. I'm talking about if Piccolo had also fused with his father all Buu's would own Piccolo. Piccolo was stronger than SSJ but not FPSSJ. At the end he could last against Semi Perfect Cell maybe win who knows. Well argue with Akira and look up DBO Majin is a race.

Actually those power levels are supposed to be offical and appear at the companion books done by Toriyama himself.

And it is also widely aknowledge that krillin is the strongest of the humans

But I also agree he should not be as strong as a SSJ, stong as Goku on MAX kayo ken maybe, but probably not super sayan.

I think Piccolo at the end is probably stronger than perfect cell even just by a bit and that he could have beaten Darbura who was as strong as perfect cell, but he caught him by surprise and turned him to stone.

But not Fat Buu, come on Fat Bu was the weakest form of Buu but he wasn´t weak at all, Majin Vegeta that was probably the most powerful form of Vegeta had to resort to a suicide attack to even attempt to kill him and he failed.

SSJ 3 Goku could have cleaned Fat Buu´s clock but number one, Goku said that he was dead and no longer belonged to this world so it was the responsabilty of the living to protect the earth, and secondly he just had a limited amount of time in that form, so he just hold him off.

The other forms of Buu could not even be fought by individual normal fighters only by Fuzions and by Gohan in a state that was supposedly Godly (wich by DB standards doesn´t mean much but however he was supposed to be supercool kick ass in that state).

Lastly Kid Buu was probably a bit more powerful that SS3 Goku or even just as powerful but unlike Goku he had unlimited stamina and regeneration so the only thing that could defeat him was the Ultimate Genki Dama with the life force of everyone on earth and Namek and all the powerful fighters.

I also agree that after Friezza all the other enemies where artificial beings one of a kind, and also coming from different times, cell from the future and Buu from the distant past, as there could not be a natural being in the current universe more powerful than the Sayans.

It's reasonable to say that - Krillin PL is no way near 15,0000,0000. I'm sorry Anime Goku but your estimations are way off.
It is also reasonable to say that Buu would whoop Piccolo's azz even if he would fuse, but we will never know.
Also this-"The Buu part was utter nonsense. Buu was a magical being created by the wizard Bibidi. There was no other being like him, expect for the brief moment where both Kid Buu and Fat Buu existed at the same time."
The guy said it all. Something like a Majin race doesn't exist. (Well except in that online game.)

The Majin Race is in the DBO game and it is stated to be cannon that's the only proof I can mention is going to Wikapedia and looking up Dragon-Ball Online. Goku when he first became an SSJ was 15,000,000 and at the end of the series it was stated Krillin had the power of an SSJ during the namek saga not a FPSSJ.

If Puiccolo fused with his dad he'd enough power to last against a weak form of buu. Krillin is my favorite character and had enough power to beat Namek saga Freeza,but not Trunks saga. Piccolo has enough power to last against Semi perfect, you realize Perfect Cell was SSJ2 level and Super perfect cell was FPSSJ2.

No SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Kid buu he didn't kill buu because he wanted Vegeta to have a turn. He wasted time and had to resort to spirit bomb. Anyway Goku surpassed Mystic Gohan in GT.

^I don't care about the game. There was no mention of the Majin race in manga or anime and that's all I care about. Buu is a unique entity.
"And at the end of the series it was stated Krillin had the power of an SSJ during the namek saga."
I don't remember such statement.
"If Puiccolo fused with his dad he'd enough power to last against a weak form of Buu."
Perhaps he would last, it would be an interesting fight...but not for long.
"Krillin had enough power to beat Namek saga Freeza."
Lol, Freeza would whoop his azz.

Buu was a unique entity and Akira is desinging the game and Majin is now a race. You have to play DBO to get why, I don't I know Buu is not a race but maybe he created a female version and started a new species? Okay, well I don't mean out Goku said"Hey Krillin you have the same amount of power I did when I went SSJ to fight Freeza" Akira has stated things like muystic gohan is stronger than SSK# Goku and such. Freeza could win no doubt he got stronger but Freeza Saga Freeza would die.

The fact that Krillin is around 1,000,000 is somewhere in the companion books so it is stated by Toriyama so It should be cannon, even if it doesn´t make much sense.

Also Mystic Gohan is supposed to be the stronger of the non fuzed characters (altough I think SSJ 3 Goku should be stronger, but that is just my opinion)

the game is new and as i hear it takes place several years after the series, Buu lived on earth for a long time, so maybe he felt lonely and multiplied himself, and by the time of the game there is a race of Majin, but originally at the time of the series there was only one Buu.

What is this thing about Piccolo fusing with his father?, Piccolo IS his father it is a reincarnation, Piccolo Dai Ma O exploded compleatly and put his life energy on an egg to create a new Piccolo, a new version of himself.

He did not divide himself into two beings like the original Namek that became Kami Sama did or like Buu did later on, so Piccolo Dai Ma O and Piccolo Ma Jr could not exist at the same time, it would be like Kid Buu and Uub existing at the same time, witch could not be posible because Uub is NOT a division of Kid Buu, but Kid Buu reeincarnated.

And even if this fuzion between Piccolo and his father where possible, It wouldn´t increase his power by that much, since by Buu Saga standards Piccolo Senior is not that powerful, not even near Piccolo Jr.

WTF??? 1500000000???? kuririn??? i must have seen the wrong anime..lol

how can you say those numbers?? the DBZ i watched (not the portuguese dub, but subbed with japanese voices), they only read te power levels in the sayans\freeza saga.. when Goku fought Ginyu his power level was 180000!!! how can freeza have more than 10000000??? it do not make any sense :S

Kuririn's PL was over 10,000 after his potential was released by the Great Elder. During the fight with Gurd, Geese commented "Those squirts measured over 10,000!" (Volume 7, Freeza Saga) so a PL of 1,500,000,000 is most likely impossible, especially when he settled down with #18 after the Cell Saga.

@4Neodemon:
Goku didn't fight Ginyu at 180,000. He simply showed Ginyu his strength in Kaio ken, in which after that Ginyu bodyswapped in attempt to gain that power. (Volume 8, Freeza Saga)

As for Freeza, after he transformed into his first form, he brags(?) that his PL exceeds 1 million, "If any instrument could read my strength... It would surpass a million" (Volume 9, Freeza Saga)

@Goku lamenting from the a:
Kuririn's PL to be around 1,000,000 would be his highest PL in the entire anime(During the Cell saga probably), especially since he settled down with #18 after the Cell Saga. (This is personally what I think, I don't think they've shown Kuririn's PL anymore after Freeza Saga)

Hope this clears up some stuff.
BTW: This information came directly from the Shounen Jump Graphic Novel Dragon Ball Z

Wait, NO, you foolish fools (just watched Yu-Gi-Oh the abridged series).

I've seen some shit about what would happen if King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. fused. It would increase Piccolo Jr. strength by A LOT, but I still think not enough to match Fat evil Buu.

Kid Buu was weaker then Super Buu. The only reason he was worse was because he was irrational. The pure evil factor made him unpredictable and, as a result, more dangerous than any other Buu.

Tien was stronger then Krillin. Don't forget, while Krillin settled down, Tien continued to train hard like always. He never stopped. By the end of DBZ, he was the strongest human, I have no doubt about it. Then if we talk about DB GT, there is really no argument to be made.

lol1991 wrote:Wait, NO, you foolish fools (just watched Yu-Gi-Oh the abridged series).

I've seen some shit about what would happen if King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. fused. It would increase Piccolo Jr. strength by A LOT, but I still think not enough to match Fat evil Buu.

Kid Buu was weaker then Super Buu. The only reason he was worse was because he was irrational. The pure evil factor made him unpredictable and, as a result, more dangerous than any other Buu.

Tien was stronger then Krillin. Don't forget, while Krillin settled down, Tien continued to train hard like always. He never stopped. By the end of DBZ, he was the strongest human, I have no doubt about it. Then if we talk about DB GT, there is really no argument to be made.

I've never seen anything like King Piccolo fusing with Piccolo Jr. except on one of the DBZ GBA games "Supersonic Warriors" where he fights King Piccolo to "Complete" himself or something like that.

"...more dangerous than any other Buu."
So wouldn't that make Kid Buu the strongest since he's PURE EVIL, while Super Buu is the more rational, logical form of Buu??

*Give's lol1991 a cookie for justifying the strongest human, Tenshinhan!*