Dragonball Z discussion

Neziare wrote:Kuririn's PL was over 10,000 after his potential was released by the Great Elder. During the fight with Gurd, Geese commented "Those squirts measured over 10,000!" (Volume 7, Freeza Saga) so a PL of 1,500,000,000 is most likely impossible, especially when he settled down with #18 after the Cell Saga.

@4Neodemon:
Goku didn't fight Ginyu at 180,000. He simply showed Ginyu his strength in Kaio ken, in which after that Ginyu bodyswapped in attempt to gain that power. (Volume 8, Freeza Saga)

As for Freeza, after he transformed into his first form, he brags(?) that his PL exceeds 1 million, "If any instrument could read my strength... It would surpass a million" (Volume 9, Freeza Saga)

I thought freeza have 1 000 000 in his FINAL form.... if he have 1 000 000 in the first form how can picoolo give a fight to him???? after picoolo's death (by nappa) his power was around 2000 (than he trained with kaio, but even Goku after trained with Kaio his power was around 14000 (with kaio-ken) like Vegeta, so picoolo powers after the kaio training can not be superior to 9000)... In Namek Picoolo made a fusion with Nail which PL was around 40000!!! how Picollo can have 1000000 to fight with freeza first form??? Jesus, this is so confusing...

Well said ppl...well said. I like this discussion.
@Anime Goku
Yes, I know that in the game there is a Majin race. Personally I was a bit surprised at first, but then again it was, perhaps, a normal thing to do if you want to attract people and to make things more interesting.(*large dollar sign appearing with the cha-ching sound) And I'm sure they can make a thousand explanations about the origin of that race.


""...more dangerous than any other Buu."
So wouldn't that make Kid Buu the strongest since he's PURE EVIL, while Super Buu is the more rational, logical form of Buu??"
Both the irrational and rational mind have their advantages in fight, although I personally find "rational" Buu to be more terrifying in combat.
@Neodemon
I thought that Piccolo went over 1mil after his fusion. And then he started fighting with Freeza in his second form (which was also around 1mil).

O hai. Guess what, SSJ Goku in the fight with Frieza...his power level is 150.000.000

It's stated in the Daizenshuu 7, which is like an information book with CANNON information.

I was also surprised, since I thought that SSJ Goku was around 15 million...Guess I was wrong. So, I suppose this puts an end to the conversation "Krillin can beat Final Form Frieza"

Also @ningen: I personally believe the irrational Buu is worse. He's so unpredictable and as so little regard for himself, that it's clear he is the worse to fight. Plus he's the one that makes best use of the Buu abilities.

ningen wrote:Well said ppl...well said. I like this discussion.
@Neodemon
I thought that Piccolo went over 1mil after his fusion. And then he started fighting with Freeza in his second form (which was also around 1mil).

yes, but how is that possible??? Nail had 40000, picoolo at the very best had 9000... how a fusion between those two create a being with 1 000 000???

plus if Freeza final form had 150 000 000 how can normal Goku make a balanced fight with freeza?? with that PL freeza should kill Goku with a sneeze...LOL
you guys have sure about that??? if that is true, then the powerlevels do not make any sense!!!!

NO!! I said that SSJ Goku when figthing Frieza had 150 000 000. Frieza was around 120 000 000. The PL just had one more 0 than what I thought

yes Lol1991... But what is the PL of the Normal Goku (when he fought freeza)??

Woah that was a lot to read!It said Krillin had the power of SSJ Goku during his first transformation Akira said so, I'm not making it up that's nowhere near the power of their current SSJ forms. He was considered weak and Freeza got stronger by than. Goku surpassed Mystic Gohan in GT as he was able to beat him and Goten at the same time in base form

MG had to resort to using SSJ again and even with SSJ Goten he still lost mind you they are older and more expereinced versions. Now Akira once said that if Piccolo ever fused with king piccolo he would be able to fight the weakest form of Buu or something like that.I know Piccolo is a reincarnatio nand that isn't possible. Kami wasn;t powerful and he gave him enough power to face Imperfect Cell.

Maybe Piccolo could own Perfect Cell and last against Fat buu for a while. L-O-L 1991 Akira himself said Krillin was the strongest he had the power of an SSJ but so did Tien if you watch movie 9 and he held off Semi perfect Cell and survived a blow from Superbuu. Piccolo trained with King Kai and fused with Nail.

Freeza's first form was exactly 1,000,000 and Piccolo was higher than when Freeza transformed again he was outmatched. SSJ Goku was 15,000,000 only I know were you are getting this info from LOL. Akira said Goku's power as an SSJ was going to be 150,000,000 but in order to continue the story he needed to lower it at first DBZ was going to end at the Freeza Saga with Goku dieing the legendary super saiyan.


Goku's PL is 15,000,000 I'm a big fan of DBZ and know everything about it. So Akira lowered them when the fans convinced him to continue DBZ.

4Neodemon wrote:

ningen wrote:Well said ppl...well said. I like this discussion.
@Neodemon
I thought that Piccolo went over 1mil after his fusion. And then he started fighting with Freeza in his second form (which was also around 1mil).

yes, but how is that possible??? Nail had 40000, picoolo at the very best had 9000... how a fusion between those two create a being with 1 000 000???

plus if Freeza final form had 150 000 000 how can normal Goku make a balanced fight with freeza?? with that PL freeza should kill Goku with a sneeze...LOL
you guys have sure about that??? if that is true, then the powerlevels do not make any sense!!!!

Well don't just add one to another. Fusion is working in a different way.
Yes, normal Goku has no chance against Freeza in his final form, but, as lol'91 stated it, we were talking about Goku as a SSJ.
@lol'91
Hehe, you stated some of the advantages of the irrational mind. But here are some of the advantages of the rational mind. "Rational" Buu is more intelligent, he approaches the battle from a different perspective, but with the same goal(that's why I call him "rational"-he's still crazy XD). I think that he would never end up in a way irrational one did. And that's the problem with the kid Buu. Kids can't always see the consequences of their actions. He doesn't care for himself, which makes him a terrifying opponent, but in the same time that's a possible opening in his guard. And Goku used that one in the end. Irrational mind can be sometimes good for an artist, in this case fighter(because it can mean creativity, that's why Buu was so successful in his techniques (although he haven't used some good ones)) but in the same time he can lead you to your doom, and that's what happened to irrational Buu.
@Anime Goku
Sorry dude, but I just don't think(and I think that I'm not the only one here) that Krillin has any chance against Freeza in his final form.


As for the question- Who is stronger Krillin or Tien?
I must go with Krillin. The guy (in his prime days, top form and all) had just accumulated more fighting experience and thus progressed a lot. And that beats the hard training.

Alright Anime Goku, take this

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_power_levels

The PL I mention are from an OFFICIAL source that is considered CANNON (the Daizenshuu 7) All that crap about "Akira said" is mostly bullshit taken from forums for your information. Don't trust everything you read Chulance.

@ningen
but in the anime, Normal Goku was able to fight freeza!!! if freeza have 150 000 000 how can Goku (no ssj) do that??? that is why i always thought Freeza power was 1000000 in the final form!!! Plus in the anime\manga freeza total PL was never showed... right?? where do you guys found those informations??

Edit: Forget... LOL1991 already give the site with that information

4Neodemon wrote:@ningen
but in the anime, Normal Goku was able to fight freeza!!! if freeza have 150 000 000 how can Goku (no ssj) do that??? that is why i always thought Freeza power was 1000000 in the final form!!! Plus in the anime\manga freeza total PL was never showed... right?? where do you guys found those informations??

Frieza wasn't using his full power. He only went to 100% when Goku turned SSJ. Before he was at 50% I think, putting is power level at around 60 000 000

Anime Goku wrote:Woah that was a lot to read!It said Krillin had the power of SSJ Goku during his first transformation Akira said so, I'm not making it up that's nowhere near the power of their current SSJ forms. He was considered weak and Freeza got stronger by than. Goku surpassed Mystic Gohan in GT as he was able to beat him and Goten at the same time in base form

MG had to resort to using SSJ again and even with SSJ Goten he still lost mind you they are older and more expereinced versions. Now Akira once said that if Piccolo ever fused with king piccolo he would be able to fight the weakest form of Buu or something like that.I know Piccolo is a reincarnatio nand that isn't possible. Kami wasn;t powerful and he gave him enough power to face Imperfect Cell.

Maybe Piccolo could own Perfect Cell and last against Fat buu for a while. L-O-L 1991 Akira himself said Krillin was the strongest he had the power of an SSJ but so did Tien if you watch movie 9 and he held off Semi perfect Cell and survived a blow from Superbuu. Piccolo trained with King Kai and fused with Nail.

Freeza's first form was exactly 1,000,000 and Piccolo was higher than when Freeza transformed again he was outmatched. SSJ Goku was 15,000,000 only I know were you are getting this info from LOL. Akira said Goku's power as an SSJ was going to be 150,000,000 but in order to continue the story he needed to lower it at first DBZ was going to end at the Freeza Saga with Goku dieing the legendary super saiyan.


Goku's PL is 15,000,000 I'm a big fan of DBZ and know everything about it. So Akira lowered them when the fans convinced him to continue DBZ.

Ok, I know Akira made DBZ and his word is suppose to be canon, but this statement is bullshit, even coming from him.

Krillin was his strongest at the Frieza saga, after that his training slacked off and he started settling down. SSJ Goku (first transformation) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krillin. By the Buu saga, he was reduced to a scatter sparring match with 18. There is no way Krillin gained enough power to be at a SSJ level.

Tien trained EVERY waking day of DBZ, and I doubt he was even anywhere near SSJ level.

The statement that Krillin was at a SSJ level (even a weak one) is a retarded thing to say, and if Akira truly said that, it just proves that he has 0 interest in DB anymore and are just saying whatever people want to hear.

i was reading the information in the site that LOL1991 gave... well, the information about kuririn have to be wrong!!! this is why:

Kuririn fighting recoome had a PL of 10500 (after being powered up by that giant namek)... BUT suddenly he get 24500 when he was fighting the ginyu squad?? why??? kuririn is NO sayan, so he can not become stronger after being injured in a fight (by recoome), or evolve only because he fought an stronger opponent...
And when kuririn fought freeza is PL was 37000 WTF????? No way.... the guy is an human or a sayan??


And Goku??? how he managed to get 3 000 000 when fighting freeza??
jesus, this would make much more sense if freeza power were only 1 000 000 like i thought it was...
Now im totally confused..ehehee
and picoolo with 1 000 000?? because he make a fusion with Nail witch power was 40000??? common... Akira confirmed this???

EDIT: I agree with you Kira... Plus Tien is much more talented then kuririn!!! the guy is a fucking mutant

Lol1991, Akira said Krillin had the power of Namek Saga Goku and therefore I believe him and nothing anyone posts can change that unless it's a vid of Akira himself saying Krillin isn't. That's a wikia and anyone can edit it. Therefore I believe Akira so Krillin can beat Freeza saga levelFinal Form Freeza,

People really underesitmate Krillin and the human characters. Tien fought FPSSj Trunks once and Krillin is stated to be the strongest human so yeah. Akira said so it's true. I believe Akira over the Daiz, Freiza's pl was 12,000,000 and Goku's was 15,000,000 no higher than that. Krillin= SSJ Goku(First transformatoin)

By Gt however Krillin became weaker although he may have remained strong he traded blows with GT Base Kid Goku and survived a blast from Broly. Akira said that Krillin reached the power of an SSJ at the end.

Anime Goku, Tien was the only human that give Cell (after A-17 absorption) a fight... kuririn had is ass kicked by Cell (when Cell was only in the first)form!! Plus Tien trained every single day, and Kuririn married with A-18 and practily stopped his training... And i do not count the GT series.. that shit is totally messed up.. specially the power levels!!

Akira can say what he want, but in the anime\manga Kuririn is not the strongest human... its impossible, by a lot of facts!!

It dosen't matter Krillin is the strongest and GT is cannon. krillin is the strongest Tien didn't hurt Semi perfect Cell. It is possible by a lot of facts he had better skills and more talent.

Anyway Who thinks Vegeta, Bardock, or one of the saiyans that suffered should have killed Freeza instead of Goku.

Kuririn had better skills and talent??? No way, dude!!! Tien is the best human... he have awesome techniques and he was recognized by master roshi as a prodigy (in the DB series)!!! Common... Tien do not hurt cell but he was able to stop him... kuririn not!! Plus kuririn stopped his training after the cell saga!!!
I always considered Tien a freakin mutant... he is the best!!!


Only Goku should be able to kill Freeza... he is legendary!!! that scene between Goku and Vegeta before the freeza fight was amazing...

Akira said Krillin was and he is more powerful. Where does it say Krillin stopped training and still he trained with King Kai TWICE! I agree amazing scene! I wish Vegeta had killed him in the end instead of Trunks. Maybe in other-world.

Well, in the portuguese subs, Gohan introduced to us Kuririn with hair..lol... and said he do not fight anymore!! plus Kuririn admitted that to... He started to train again (with A18) to participate in the tenkaichi budokai with Goku (that came to life for 24hours)
When Goku married with Chi-Chi he also lacked in his training (and he was a sayan.. the fight geeks..lol)... imagine Kuririn after marrying
And i seriously doubt the power level information about kuririn (that web page LOL1991 showed to us).... his evolution do not make any sense and i explained why in my previous posts


Yes, i agree... it should be Vegeta!! He deserved that...

In the actual manga/original anime it dosen't say that/ Goku did not stop training. I believe Akira over the internet. Vegeta did deserve it

I do not know japanese so i can not say if you are righ or not...lol, but if Akira said that Kuririn continued his training i believe in him... but by watching the anime i got a feeling that he do not trained!! Even if he trained, Ten Shin Han also did that... And he gave much more fight to Majin Buu than Kuririn... For me Tien wil always be the most powerfull human in the planet... kuririn was always being kicked in his ass

@Anime Goku
Lol, Freeza in his final form would own Krillin. If you can't figure that out your just some blind fanboi. And all you got is "he said\she said." No proof, just your will to believe and that's what fanboiz do.
@Neodemon
I clearly remember somebody in anime stating that Freeza's power level is one million in his second form and after the fusion Piccolo was fighting with him on an equal level. So I came to such conclusion.
Goku (at that time)wouldn't last long against Freeza in his final form(with full powah).

Anime Goku wrote:Lol1991, Akira said Krillin had the power of Namek Saga Goku and therefore I believe him and nothing anyone posts can change that unless it's a vid of Akira himself saying Krillin isn't. That's a wikia and anyone can edit it. Therefore I believe Akira so Krillin can beat Freeza saga levelFinal Form Freeza,

People really underesitmate Krillin and the human characters. Tien fought FPSSj Trunks once and Krillin is stated to be the strongest human so yeah. Akira said so it's true. I believe Akira over the Daiz, Freiza's pl was 12,000,000 and Goku's was 15,000,000 no higher than that. Krillin= SSJ Goku(First transformatoin)

By Gt however Krillin became weaker although he may have remained strong he traded blows with GT Base Kid Goku and survived a blast from Broly. Akira said that Krillin reached the power of an SSJ at the end.

You seriously need to trust the Wikis more. People just don't let them get edited like that. Any bullshit get's reverted. I'm telling you the Daizenshuu 7 said Goku was at a 150.000.000 as a SSJ. Frieza at full power was at 120.000.000. I was surprised too, but it actually makes sense. Look at it like this.

So, Frieza was at 1.000.000 when in the second form. He then turned in to the third form, and then the final form. The final form saw a HUGE jump in power. If we assume the third form was around 5.000.000, Frieza jumping to just 15.000.000 is absurd. Then take into account you still have to add the jump to 100% power, and it stops making any sense all together.

Even more so if you take into account Goku's PL. So he's at the very least stronger then 1.000.000 in fight with Final form Frieza (not at 100% power). Then he used the Kaioken x20. 1.000.000 x 20 = 20.000.000. He would have obliterated Frieza with no sweat, even if the latter was at 100%, because the PL would supposedly be 12.000.000.

I'm just saying it makes more sense like this.

And I wont argue the Krillin Tien thing. I love Krillin, and always identified myself with him because I was very short. I believe he deserved to be the strongest human, but I have to give it to Tien. He trained much harder after Cell. Heck, Tien even went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and Krillin didn't

^Very, very nice explanation.
As for the Krillin, I really think that due to his fighting with the strong oponents he progresed a lot more than Tien. I mean it's one thing to train hard and totally another to test your abilities fighting for your life. But, yes, he settled down, Tien continued to train...I think that Krillin would win if he would fight in his top form, but as things ended up Tien would probably win.

Cool for you but in reality Krillin owns Tien Fanboi? This is some new term? Also I just go by the creator Akira said Krillin was SSJ power so he is. I can edit the wikia and no one ever changes it I did it once to prove it to my friend than I put it back the way it was. Goku was at 15,000,000 and Freiza was at 12,000,000 that's a fact and nothing anybody says will change that.

No it dosen't make since it does not no no it dosen't wikia lies. That's a lie yes yes it is! Frieza was 1,000,000 got a little higher than skyrockted to 15,000,000. No No Goku was in the low millions till SSJ brought him to 15,000,000 yes yes.

Facts
Krillin is stronger than Tien

Tien died fighitng Nappa. Krillin faced beings like Nappa,Frieza, ect. Heck he fought 17 as a senior citizen he faced much stronger opponents.
Goku's first SSJ pl was 15,000,000
The game DBZ Saga's even agree's.